mental disorders

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mental disorders

Postby TerraFrost » Tue Sep 20, 2005 6:05 am

Reading this thread has got me thinking that being diagnosed with a mental disorder would be quite nice.

To explain why, in a round-about way... I believe a lot of mental disorders would be more aptly described as personality traits. Aspergers syndrome, ADHD, depression, etc. I think the only reason they're classified as mental disorders is so that people can blame the disorder and not themselves (or their kids, or whatever) for problems they might encounter. As an example of the thoughts that might go through someones head... I have a tough time studying, but it's not my fault - I have ADHD.

I hate to break it to people, but if fault is to be placed, then it seems to me that you really ought to place it with yourself - not with some cooked up mental condition. People with ADHD aren't the only ones who have tough times studying - they're just the ones who so desperatly wanted to justify their inability to study that they went to psychologist.

Here's a more direct explanation of why I think it'd be great to have a mental disorder - not only would I have achieved everything that I already have - I would have done it in spite of a mental disorder! And of course, if mental disorders are barriers to achievement, then just think what someone could accomplish if they didn't have a mental disorder!

But alas, I haven't been diagnosed with a mental disorder.

Also, what about those people who have real tangible problems, such as cancer, physical birth defects, severed limbs, burned down houses, etc? These - and not those diagnosed with mental disorders - are the people who are deserving of respect and sympathy.

Anyway, all that said, my views are probably influenced by fact that our societies view of males would have them never seeking professional help and never seeking excuses (see this thread). They can also probably, incidently, be changed, if someone makes a good case (I haven't heard many perspectives on either side, actually).
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Postby Roadkill » Tue Sep 20, 2005 10:43 pm

eh, hate to break it to you, but ADHD is real. An easy way to verify is to make the kid drinka mountain dew, or expresso. If they fall asleep soon after, bingo! and my god, you t have never met a more annoying kind of person. Anyway, if they're a phsyical effects, or his body reacts phsyically different due to his disorder, then i do think it is real.

Howeve rthe number of mid diagnosiss are extreme. Phsycoligists are supposed to make a diagnosis based on a few tests and a few dissected hours with teh subject. This is not him in everyday life. A large portion of my PreAP class (mostly the preps) were diagnosed with ADD or ADHD when they were a kid, but "lost" the disorder as they got older. Although ADD or ADHD does apparently sometimes (or often, i forget) fade with age, i seriously beleive alot of those were misdiagnosis. High metabolism is more likely. And what little kid doesn't have high metabolism?

A friend of mine (a real country boy computer geek) suggests that the solution was a good ass beating, not drugging and an excuse. And i kinda agree.

It really depends on the degre of which they blame their disorder. For autism, why even tell them? A friend of mine claims to have a mild case of Autism, and i think he actually may. He tells everyone of stuff that is going on that is irrelevant or not important to what is being discussed. He never realizes it. He makes wrong or stupid choices, and when we catch him he seems somewhat surprised and makes excuses. His self esteem jsut will never rise. He is very good at making excuses. hate to say it, but we kind of make fun of him for it. "Bobby, bobby, listen to yourself!" "bobby, it's not important." And it's just that way...

Of course, there's the situation would he feel better or worse if he didn't know he had it?

But personally, if he didn't know he had it, with a little support he could have gotten over it. But i think a cousin or something of his has autism, and so his mother leaned the wrong way, testing him for it and then telling him it's ok because he is a little autistic. Support Autism Awareness bumper stickers on there car. I mean, my god, don't surround him with the disorder if you want him to overcome it.

i mean hell!

I ougta stop now.
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:42 am

eh, hate to break it to you, but ADHD is real. An easy way to verify is to make the kid drinka mountain dew, or expresso. If they fall asleep soon after, bingo! and my god, you t have never met a more annoying kind of person. Anyway, if they're a phsyical effects, or his body reacts phsyically different due to his disorder, then i do think it is real.

As I understand it, ADHD is supposed to be persistent. It's not something that just magically goes away after a few hours of drinking a substance with caffeine - it's something you have to live with. If you have an unusually high sensitivity to caffeine, that sensitivity is what you have to live with - not the manifestations of that sensitivity.

Wikipedia's entry on ADHD reveals that the leading theory on ADHD suggests that its due to a neuro-chemical imbalance in the brain. Of course, the problem with that as an explanation is that... in order to say that something is imbalanced, you have to first have an idea of what the normal balance is. And whose to say what is normal? Just because you don't act like others would have you act doesn't mean you're abnormal - it doesn't mean you have a mental disorder.

Wikipedia elaborates on other criticisms of ADHD as a diagnosis, too.
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Postby shahmask » Wed Sep 21, 2005 2:24 pm

terra, roadkill is saying that when a normal person drinks caffeine, they get really wound up. when a person with adhd drinks caffeine, they fall asleep. if that is true, then it definately highlightes a problem.

and wiggie, we know about neurotransmitters and their effects. therefore, we are sermizing the neurochemical imbalance. much like evolution is theorized, we cant competely prove either, but withe the available facts, it seems to be the most probable answer.

it is similar to clinical depression as well. we take a persond. they don't hate their jobs, they aren't having financial problems, they have friends and a good personal life and they're not ill. essentially, more or less no real problems. but they don't feel good. they're always tired, irritable, etc. etc. so, the dr. gives them a neurotransmitter reuptake inhibitor( i cant remember exaclty which one it is). that is how depression is treated. but people consider it a very big problem. that depression actually doesn't exist. why can't it? why can't it exist like diabetes. in both instances, we believe the person isn't makeing enough of a chemical or has become desensitized to it. insulin in one case and that neurotransmitter (maybe it's seratonin. i just can't remember which it is).
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:48 pm

terra, roadkill is saying that when a normal person drinks caffeine, they get really wound up. when a person with adhd drinks caffeine, they fall asleep. if that is true, then it definately highlightes a problem.

It may highlight a problem, but like I said - I'm not sure ADHD is the problem it highlights. If it is, then perhaps Roadkill should add it to the wikipedia article. If it doesn't get removed by the other people who've contributed to the article, I'll be more inclined to believe it. As is, it's little more than antedotal evidence and speculation.

And to be honest, it's antedotal evidence that doesn't coincide with my own experiences. Like the wikipedia article states, ADHD is a pretty common condition. I've known quite a few people who've been diagnosed with it (a middle school publication sorta had interviews with students who had it) and have never observed them to fall asleep when drinking caffeine. You probably know quite a few people with ADHD, yourself - it's not something that limits itself to the impoverished. And yet have you ever seen anyone fall asleep while drinking caffeine?

I'll try to more fully consider your other points, later (I need to get ready for school).
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Postby shahmask » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:38 pm

like i said terra, if it is true. i was only clarifying what roadkill had said b/c your response to it seemed like u hadn't quite understood what he was saying. that's all i meant with that.
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Postby shahmask » Wed Sep 21, 2005 9:48 pm

just read most of the wikipedia article. to me, adhd is only disputed as evolution is disputed. according to the article, there is statistical evidence linking several possible factors. i also sugges u go read about some of those drugs. they have some interesting viewpoints towards overprescribing them.
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Postby ChatOmbre » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:22 pm

I don't have much time to post right now (need to do my homework), but I'll add some thing(s) off the top of my head...

I have adhd, but it's the inattentive kind that I have, not the hyperactive. Caffine doesn't make me fall asleep (I've never heard of that happening to someone, I think Surpy was just exagerating), but it does help me focus. Caffine and pills don't magically fix everything, though. They can help, but for me most of it is just finding different things and ways of doing things that help me.
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Postby Roadkill » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:35 pm

eh, the article states that acommon factor of misidiagnois is toublesome schoolkids (trust me, teachers love to do tell their parents to test thier kids or ask if you've been tested), and just lack of discipline as a cause of misiagnosis.

Also, the article says that a probable cause of increased diagnosis is better ways of testing for the condition.


One should aslo note the number of people that have coped with ADHD like symptoms without ever needing or having medication. But some cases, i beleive are worthy of medication, it's just overused. alot of parents just don't know how to cope with an ADHD child, having never had to cope with people of htis nature before. I you get down to the positive aspects of they syndrom, it describes the accelerated learning that ADHD allows one to have.

Buat again, probably the 3 major causes of problems related to mental disorders are misdiagnosis, overtreatment, and focus on it as a problem. But for the 3rd, parents just don't know how to do otherwise, ADHD has a tendency to pop up without genetic history in the family. Also lack of discipline leads to misdiagnosis, suching poor parenting in the first place.

In alot of cases actually being able to diagnosis the syndrom has hurt us. But whatever, we have to live with it now. 100 years from now when it's too common it'll be better.
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Postby tsian » Thu Sep 22, 2005 8:49 am

Terra,

I think you are slightly oversimplifying. Mental illness is a real problem. Just because traits were previously concidered an odd personality quirk, does not mean that there is not something wrong.

This is not to say that there is not a habbit of some doctors to prescribe anti-depressants at the first complaint. This is obviously folley, as everyone goes through depression at some point in their lives, and regular depression is something different entirely from clinical depression. If you have ever dealt with someone who is depressed or bipolar on and off their medication, you might realize what a (positive) impact medication can have. Similarily, if you have never dealt with a kid who truly has ADD/ADHD, it is hard to comprehend the different between hyperness and a mental illness. (And I'm not even going to talk about such things as schizophrenia, where medication is vital for a person's wellbeing.)

Again, I don't want to say that there isn't a tendancy to overmedicate -- there may well be one -- but this does not mean that there is not a substantial swath of the population that is affected by mental illness. A better question might be to address at what point depression becomes clinical and what constitutes sufficiently depressed to warrant medication. Also, of course, therapy can also be a positive experience for those dealing with depression, as depression can manifest itself as a result of other (often stressfull) issues.
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Postby Exalted Ugu » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:05 am

Terra, have you ever MET anyone with Aspbergers Syndrome? I've met a few, one on a regular and ongoing basis, the problems he faces in perception, orientation and socialization are not 'personality traits', they're serious defects in his mind's functioning, and no matter what coping methods he's taught, and no matter how well he learns to get along with people and groups, he's NEVER going to function the way you and i do. Every normal social interaction that robin has is going to be atificial, something he has to consciously work at, because his brain lacks some of the structures that ours have....

Likewise, there are detecable differences in brain function with people who have serious clinical depression, ADHD, and pretty much all mental disorders. There exists a class of conditions called "personality disorders", like 'antisocial personality disorder', 'borderline personality disorder' and suchlike, that have no known physical cause. But i think you're barking up the wrong tree when it comes to mental illness. Trust me, you REALLY don't want aspbergers or clinical depression, really...

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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Oct 10, 2005 1:27 am

I suppose ya'll are right...

That said, people who diagnose themselves as having mental illnesses seem to me to be little more than excuse-seeking hypochondriacs. I didn't think people actually did this, but the following post has enlightened me:

http://forums.emuxhaven.net/showpost.ph ... stcount=15

I mean, if you seriously think you have a mental disorder, isn't it worth your time to get it checked out? If you're seriously being impared, then isn't it worth your time to remedy it?
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