israel vs palestine

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israel vs palestine

Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jul 22, 2003 9:27 pm

i recently took an english class - world literature, and... the teacher was pretty critical of us forign policy... and he had a poster that said "free palestine" on the door to his office, heh.

anyways... i'm just going to sorta type up his arguments against israel (as i remember them), here... these aren't necessarily my own views, but... anyways..

the holocaust was probably one of the worst crimes of this past century. for that, the jewish people deserve some compinsation. however, that does not mean that others should be displaced to give them compensation. displacing millions of palestinians doesn't "right" the holocaust, nor can it. as the old addage goes... two wrongs don't make a right. to that end, israel invented the car bomb (source ), and they developed nuclear weapons in 1950's. additionally, israel is the only nation in the world not to have declared their borders, and... israel has been issued more un resolutions than iraq has.

now, the US is a big supporter of israel. this isn't because US senators are sympathetic, but because they want to get elected, and... they need the support of the jewish people to get elected. the AARP (american association for retired people) may be the largest special interest group on washington, but AIPAC is the second largest (source).

additionally, a lot of people who critisize israel are called anti-semites, which is wrong. they're anti-zionists (zionism being the belief that the jewish people should have a land of their own), and... technically, zionists in israel who displace palestinians are anti-semetic, themselves, because both the jewish religion and the muslim religion are descended from shem, as described here:

http://amprom.org/documents_pages/antisemitism.html

so... anyways, those were pretty much my professor's arguments against israel... i think the last one about zionism and semitism was the most interesting point he made. aipac was interesting, but not quite as much so as the last one, and... the first point... although there were some good points interwoven in it, i think it was hurt by, what are in my mind, unsubstantiated claims. the site i found saying that israel invented the car bomb looks very biased, and i couldn't even find a site that said israel hadn't declared any borders (although, admittedly, i didn't look very hard). the point about un resolutions... there are links verifying that in some old iraq thread here, on this forum...

anyways... what are your thoughts on the israel / palestinian situation?

here's some good background reading:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static ... /timeline/
http://www.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?s ... rael&go=Go
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Postby Gigafrost » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:08 pm

An interesting thought I had about the "two wrongs don't make a right" argument...it's sorta convincing until you realize that it would be a third wrong, and I somehow doubt that three wrongs make a right, you know?

Anyways, I need to look at the other two point more thuroughly before I'd even have *any* ideas about them... ^.^;;
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Postby shahmask » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:17 pm

here's how it goes. as long as religion is part of a government, there will always be fighting. not even christians get along with eachother(england and ireland). in fact, as long as religion is around, there will be hate and distrust. for a more calm example, many areas of catholicism(and maybe other christian religions) believe that if someone isn't baptised, they're jews(and not in the they'll become rich ppl way, but a more negative way). to a greater extent, islam will never rest as long as there are jews. and even if all jews were killed, then they'd go after christians and other infadels. of course, muslims aren't the only ones makeing trouble. christianity is full of dark sides. and for the bads of jews, just look at isreal's inability to stop fighting.
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Postby Nyufrost » Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:26 pm

I remember reading somewhere that Israel was not even a country until the United Nations made it one in the 1940's (I think) ... that was sort of a surprise to me.

Anyways, regardless of when it was formed, I believe I also read it has been under attack practically from Day 1 of its existance because the Muslim and Islamic nations do not accept it because it's religion is different. I could be faulty on my recollections since it was like a year ago I read this.

Does anyone know if Israel has attempted to expand its territory or just protect it? That's one thing that confuses me.
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jul 22, 2003 11:08 pm

as far as israel's formation... this kind of surprised me when i first found out, but.. the british had designated israel a jewish state in 1917. israel declared independance in 1948.

as far as israel and the wars it has been involved in... israel is definitly expanding it's territory. in 1967, israel gained control of the west bank and the gaza strip in what is known as the six-day war. there are other examples, i think, but those are the best examples, and most commenly cited.
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Postby Neerowolf » Wed Jul 23, 2003 2:36 am

I don't care about either of them. I'm sure they have their arguements, but they kill each other so often, that i no longer feel sympathetic of either of 'em. I think they should learn to get along, and maybe there would be someone left to *own* the land...
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Postby shahmask » Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:36 am

wow! im not sure, but i think this is the first time ive actually agreed with neero. well said btw.
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Re:

Postby SlabTzu » Wed Dec 10, 2008 6:47 pm

Neerowolf wrote:I don't care about either of them. I'm sure they have their arguements, but they kill each other so often, that i no longer feel sympathetic of either of 'em. I think they should learn to get along, and maybe there would be someone left to *own* the land...


Its easy to say "I dont care" when the vast majority of the reality is not shown in major news networks. Its like what does some one have to do? Throw a lifeless baby on your lap due the power being cut off in Gaza by Israel killing babies in incubators, the elderly on dialysis machines and mothers dying giving birth in ambulances stuck at Israeli check points which divide every single neighborhood and roadway entrance!

I went there in 2003 and made the mistake to pull out a large microphone and was quickly surrounded by hundreds and hundreds of Palestine refugees trying to to tell me the story of their murdered relatives. Every single one of them had a dead relative or friend. This is right after I stepped out of a demolished home where the women were still crying over their rubble screaming at me saying "what do you do with those cameras huh?!?! You just come and record everything and go back home for what?!?! You do nothing!" which was right after I was toured around a destroyed Palestinian hospital that was blown up 2 hours before I got there. This was just one day of being there but not the scariest day I was there.

Yeah go ahead keep saying you dont care. In reality Israel receives the most military funding from US tax money in the world. I dont have the luxury to say such things as "I dont care" as if they were equal. One is the occupier and the other is the resistor. I dont have that luxury, ignorance is bliss, but once you have real knowledge, life can never be the same and must be lived.

Thank you terrafrost for the post. Keep spreading the word. By the way, are you a practicing Jedi or are you just using the word? If you do consider yourself a Jedi living by the codes and the way, come through and visit the The Grassroots' Jedi Council. We're with the rebellion.



Peace.

Oh and by the way, I've removed your link just in case you're a really sneaky spammer and, most of all, to not give any others ideas that they can slip in a post or two just to promote their own sites and whatnot. Sorry to do this but we have to extra cautious right now due to the spam attacks we've been getting.

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Re: israel vs palestine

Postby Drazo » Wed Dec 10, 2008 11:58 pm

You do realise that the last reply was made well over 5 years ago and that most of the members you see in this thread, including the one you're talking to, have long since left, right?

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