What's your opinion on ..... ?

[Rao]

Kerry will win, only cuz i havent met one person(i work in a salestore with almost 1000 people coming in and out a day)who wanted Bush to stay in office.

[Catgirl]

*jumps into topic*

Separation of church and state... grand idea, but impractical really
In America, the religious opinion of anyone is supposed to be kept out of politics but the reality is, the country started as Protestant Christian so the very constitution has Christianity woven into it.
Obviously, with the amendments to the constitution it was declared that citizens are free to worship as they will and there is not national religion, but that won't stop voters from factoring in a candidates religious beliefs when voting. So even though the church doesn't directly interfere with the government, and the government won't directly interfere with any religion, there is no way to ever completely separate them so long as people believe in SOMETHING.

Ideally, candidates would not state their religious views when running for an office, but they know that declaring may change the number of votes they receive. So if declaring a religion will get them into office, the country will continue to have it's laws influenced by one religion or another.

now...

[Rapscallion]

Funny you should mention this. My roommate, his buddy, Adrian, and I went to see a movie and we were talking about the primaries on the way there. I'm a McCain supporter, so I told them I was probably going to vote for him and Adrian asked me, "You're Catholic and you'll vote for McCain??" I kind of smirked and said, "So I'm supposed to be voting for Guiliani?"

Personally, I could care less what a candidate's religion is, so long as I feel that they can effectively not screw over my future.

[Dracofrost]

That America is an inherently Christian country is a myth spread by modern day religious figures trying to justify their increasing involvement in political affairs. Though the majority of the population has been Christian for the most part of our existence, a great many of the Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution were Deist or even straight up Atheistic. Most were rationalists. This is an all too often forgotten fact.

The willful ignorance of the masses regarding the whole point of the seperation of Church and State is only one of several reasons this country is decaying. The entire system of public education isn't helping, especially as it keeps getting more and more inferior. As well, our general cultural disdain for hard work, doing things with your hands, and marginalizing workers is destroying our economy. But hey... nobody said Democracies were stable over the long term...

[Catgirl]

a great many of the Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution were Deist or even straight up Atheistic. Most were rationalists. This is an all too often forgotten fact.

The willful ignorance of the masses regarding the whole point of the seperation of Church and State is only one of several reasons this country is decaying.

yes, it is true that many of the founding fathers were atheist, but on the flip side, the only religion around at that point in America's history was some version of Christianity, seeing as the Native Americans didn't get any say in what became of land that was previously theirs. So if any religion can be credited with having an influence on the U.S.'s early days, it would have to be Protestant Christian.

I do agree that the masses are willfully ignorant of how politics is supposed to work. I've talked to a lot of people my age (i'm 18) who don't even have any idea who is currently running for president aside from the media promoted Clinton and Obama

[Rapscallion]

Hopefully it works out.

[Dracofrost]

Yes... however, I would still argue that separation of church and state isn't so much impractical as it is being undermined by religious persons wanting political power, and gaining it. The modern situation of every candidate for president having to be a Christian of some sort to have any hope of getting elected is the result of institutional influence of religious officials, not just cultural inertia.

I see this partly as a result of our current public education system, modeled on the Prussian one designed specifically to reduce individualism, critical thought, and stress strict obedience and quiet submission. It's no wonder we're a nation full of sheep these days, instead of hard working, practical, intelligent, individual Americans. Now if only there were some incentive to the politicians in charge to not leave it that way...

[Catgirl]

can you expect every political candidate to be atheist then? i do think it would be interesting to see someone of another religion perhaps in office, but let's face it... the majority of religions in the U.S. are some off-shoot of Christianity. I think that all major religions are seeing a decline in this country though, so it's likely that there will soon be an atheist in the oval office, but not for a few elections yet.

I definitely agree that the school system crushes any sort of individuality. I once tried to get into a debate in government class about the voting rights and was told to be quiet b/c the lesson plans were on a set schedule. There needs to be more ways of teaching citizens to make independent decisions rather than just following the mass media.

[Rapscallion]

Why do you think that?! I was under the impression that people were becoming more creative, more free thinking, and more intelligent! Go to some of MY classes. It's an attack of free thinking, personal opinions, and the teacher just lets it all play out like it's some kind of frickin speech and debate contest.

The modern situation of every candidate for president having to be a Christian of some sort to have any hope of getting elected is the result of institutional influence of religious officials, not just cultural inertia.

I also think that's not true. Any legal citizen that's born in the U.S. could be president if had the resources, and it doesn't heavily depend on his religion for him to make it.

[Dracofrost]

Then why do we never see any non-christian candidates for president? Roughly 80% of the nation is christians; where are the non-christian presidential candidates to represent the other 20%? Yes, technically any legal citizen of the United States by the law, but electability is a serious issue. Every politician essentially *has* to go on about god and their religion to get any support these days, or so it seems. Even if they don't actually believe it, they have to at least pretend convincingly. And evangelicals and fundamentalists seem to be getting larger and more powerful lobbies in Washington all the time.

Also, you're in a college. College is run vastly differently than the rest of the public education system. How many people actually graduate from college, specifically good colleges? And was highschool nearly that good?

[Rapscallion]

I'm sorry, but I was referring to my high school when I was talking about the public education system. My high school was decent in terms of the experienced teachers. I always got the impression that they often wanted our input in discussing the material, whether it be good or bad, but that could be because I took several honors classes. It could also be that I was fortunate enough to have good teachers. I never really got the sense that they were trying to conform anybody. Maybe high schools are completely different out by you guys.

As for the candidates, I don't suppose I can argue with that until a non-christian politician runs for president. I will admit that non-denominational christianity has sort of been surging in popularity; whatever happened to ritual?

[Some Unreg Punk]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/americas/ ... index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An animal rights group is offering $1 million to any scientist who can create lab-grown meat that is commercially viable and indistinguishable in taste from the real thing.
People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) said the money would go to the first scientist who could create and market such a meat by the summer of 2012. The group said the scientist had to be able to produce the meat in large enough quantity so it could be sold in 10 U.S. states -- at a price competitive to the prevailing chicken price.
Further, the meat had to have "taste and texture indistinguishable from real chicken flesh to non-meat eaters and meat eaters alike."
A taste-test panel would determine if the lab-produced meat fitted the criteria.

we all know why PETA is offering this but that's not my problem with this. I think PETA is not thinking this through. If this becomes a reality ( which i doubt it won't be for at least another forty or fifty years ) won't it also signal the extinction of pigs and chickens. Since no would need to raise them anymore?

wait that's stupid...if the cost of making the meat outweighs the cost of raising pigs/chickens then this will fail.
Then you also got to sell the meat and since people are still fighting against gene-altered corn,rice,etc the chances of people buying this type of meat must be low.

the only reason i say it will take forty or fifty years before we see this becoming a reality is because currently the researchers experimenting with the stem cell growth method is slow going exp with that limited ban here in the states, and FDA can be pretty strict when it comes new human consumable products to be sold.

[TerraFrost]

If this becomes a reality ( which i doubt it won't be for at least another forty or fifty years ) won't it also signal the extinction of pigs and chickens. Since no would need to raise them anymore?

We've certainly skewed natural selection. What would have been the animals best suited for survival / reproduction in the wild are probably not the ones that are best suited for survival / reproduction in domestication. So, those that were well suited towards surviving on their own have died off and those that aren't have become dominate. And would probably die off if we just sorta let them free.

Or something, heh.

[Rapscallion]

Well, I'm still demanding real chicken! Besides, several farmers would be put out of jobs. Anyway, there's animal abuse and there's fretting over poultry; the latter isn't really a concern of mine unless the chicken gets contaminated in the process. I'm in the mood for KFC, now.

[Rapscallion]

Thanks.