Extra Sensory Perception

[Catgirl]

going to try my paw... err... hand... at throwing a subject out here

so here it is, do you believe in things like telekinesis, telepathy, etc.?
If ESP exists it defies any known method of information transfer, since there isn't any measurable energy changes in tested cases. But at the same time, it's been thought for some time that any two atoms that have come into contact at any point in time have a permanent "memory" and "awareness" of each other which might allow for information to be received. So do you think it's possible for ESP to exist? and have you had any experiences with it?

[TerraFrost]

For someone who's color blind, being able to see colors would, for them, qualify as extra sensory perception, would it not?

*shrug*

To answer your question... sure, I think it's possible that telekinesis or telepathy exist, just as I think it's possible that God exists. In point of fact, however, I think the most probable answer is that they don't exist. Not God, not telekinesis, not telepathy.

Author C. Clark had a quote - "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.". God is kinda like magic, as is telekinesis, and telepathy. How could we, as a society, distinguish between advanced technology and telepathy, or we, as individuals, distinguish between advanced subterfuge techniques (as a magician might employ) and telepathy? I don't think we can, and given a choice between accepting magic or "technology" as the answer, I'd have to go with "technology". To assume it's magic is to sorta give up on trying to figure out how it works.

[Catgirl]

hmm.... i like your example of the color-blindness, it makes a good point

I have read that quote by Clark before, it's very true. I'm actually not a believer in ESP myself, as there have never been any cases where conclusive proof could be found.
I think it's interesting to discuss though, as there are obviously a lot of people (including the military) putting money into psychics or into research about it.

[Rapscallion]

As a skeptic, I'll believe it when I see it. I've heard some stories, but I think anyone who passes themselves off as psychic is just using deductive reasoning. As for telekinesis, I have not witnessed it just as I don't believe.

[Dracofrost]

No evidence repeatable under reliably tested conditions. Magicians are professional tricksters, and so called psychics are just more of the same, but with less honesty about the nature of their 'abilities'.
Now, as for magic tricks that produce such effects, sure they're fun. I'd love to know how to do them myself just to mess with people... but I wouldn't lie and claim 'genuine' ESP powers.

[Roadkill]

No.

Ghosts, maybe. Actual physical manipulation... no. This doesn't mean that I don't get freaked out when things that shouldn't move, do, but I can't see it working.

This next paragraph might derail the post a little bit...

Also, I never used to see it this way before, but I would be more careful when using the same basis for arguing against the existence of God. It only works against those who believe that God has his hand directly in making some miracles work, and people who believe for the sake of miracles miss the point. The point is the exercise of faith -- do you have faith, confidence, trust in your fellow men? Do you have faith in the overreaching goodness and rightness in the world? These are things difficult to prove, and there is only evidence, forcing yourself to constantly re-evaluate and test yourself and the world around you. ESP and psychics, I see no scientific basis or faithful basis for these to exist, and they are easy to refute on both levels. God, and everything entailed with that word, is much harder and warrants a different basis for argument for or against, not just logical analysis.

It's the same reason God and science always seem to counteract each other in the public eye, scientific thought is doing the entirely logical thing of breaking down an illogical belief; and while organized religion will often argue directly against science (and this is why I proclaim nothing more than Deism), its basis of thought is putting human compassion into the worldly look at things.

[Catgirl]

It's the same reason God and science always seem to counteract each other in the public eye, scientific thought is doing the entirely logical thing of breaking down an illogical belief; and while organized religion will often argue directly against science (and this is why I proclaim nothing more than Deism), its basis of thought is putting human compassion into the worldly look at things.

I like that highlighted bit....
I think you made a good argument, and obviously any sort of supposed ESP is impressive, we have to be on the constant look-out for frauds and tricksters who are out for nothing more than personal gain and the satisfaction of feeding off the gullible.

Also, interesting viewpoint on arguing against the existence of God, havn't heard it from that angle before.

[Drazo]

we have to be on the constant look-out for frauds and tricksters who are out for nothing more than personal gain and the satisfaction of feeding off the gullible.

Like Criss Angel, for example.

[Dracofrost]

we have to be on the constant look-out for frauds and tricksters who are out for nothing more than personal gain and the satisfaction of feeding off the gullible.

Like Criss Angel, for example.

Eh, he's a bad example. He doesn't lie and claim any psychic powers, and freely admits that it's all trickery for the purposes of entertainment. Sure, he makes a good living off of that entertainment, but he's honest about it.

[Rapscallion]

True.

[Catgirl]

heya.... Criss Angel is an amazing magician, modern Houdini even. neither of them have claimed psychic powers, they just rawk XD

[Rapscallion]

I don't see how so many people hate Criss Angel. My old suitemate and his stoner buddies told me, "Criss Angel is gay! His tricks are fake!" And I'd say, "Well, yeah. You can't exactly get run over by a steam roller, get impaled on a picket fence, and saw yourself in half without living to talk about it." XD

[Catgirl]

LOL
isn't the very definition of "trick" a deception, hence fake? if people aren't interested in just letting a performer perform, then they need to leave them alone.