what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

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what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby TerraFrost » Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:40 pm

what do you think would have happened? Given that Sheridan's going to Z'ha'dum was what brought Lorien out of hiding and that Lorien was probably the only reason the Vorlons and the Shadows left, it seems to me that if Sheridan hadn't gone to Z'ha'dum, the Shadow War would have progressed similar to how it progressed 1,000 years ago - that the Shadows would be narrowly defeated and that in another 1,000 years would come out again.

Per that, it also seems that if Valen (or whomever rallied all the other alien races together) had gone to Z'ha'dum, that the Shadows / Vorlons could have been nudged into leaving 1,000 years ago.

As for Sheridan's nuking of Z'ha'dum... the only that probably did was motivate the Vorlons to go on the offensive with their planet killers, which, in turn, was probably the catalyst the the Shadows doing it. Without that, it's doubtful Sheridan would have, towards the end, been able to unify all the alien races together as he did.
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby Winkchen » Sat Jan 26, 2008 8:18 pm

That`s a very very good question.
I think, they would have defeted the Shadows without Lorien, but I think Sheridan destroyed some Shadow ships and an important base.

But how could Valen go to Zha`ha`dum?
I think, he was in the past at this time, so he couldn`t go to Zha`ha`dum (or did I understand something wrong?)

But I too think that I couldn`t unify the races without going to Zha`ha`dum.

Well, I think, their chance to win had been much smaller, maybe they couldn`t make it without Sheridan going to Zha`ha`Dum
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby TerraFrost » Sat Jan 26, 2008 11:54 pm

Winkchen wrote:But how could Valen go to Zha`ha`dum?
I think, he was in the past at this time, so he couldn`t go to Zha`ha`dum (or did I understand something wrong?)

I was thinking he could have gone 1,000 years ago.

ie. he goes back in time, makes significant headway in the earlier war, then the Shadows send their emissary and Valen maybe goes to Z'ha'dum.

Well, I think, their chance to win had been much smaller, maybe they couldn`t make it without Sheridan going to Zha`ha`Dum

I agree. Any victory they did achieve might only be a victory in the sense that the Shadows let it be a victory. If the Shadows can't bring about a massive intergalactic war, they might abandon their attempts, for the time being, in an attempt to reconsider their strategy. Maybe that's what happened 1,000 years ago - maybe the Shadows weren't defeated, but rather, just gave up when they saw that their strategy wasn't working.

Of course, if war was all they were interested in, there'd be no reason to coral aliens into a particular sector for a shooting fest, as they did in the next to last episode of season 3.
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby Winkchen » Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:09 am

I still don`t think, Valen would have gone to Zha`ha`dum.
I think, the reason Sheridan did, was his ex-wife Anna, I think he had a little hope, that what she said was true. And without coming with her, he couldn`t have come to that base.
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby TerraFrost » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:19 pm

Winkchen wrote:I still don`t think, Valen would have gone to Zha`ha`dum.
I think, the reason Sheridan did, was his ex-wife Anna, I think he had a little hope, that what she said was true. And without coming with her, he couldn`t have come to that base.

Yeah - I agree. I don't think he had any reason to go Z'ha'dum. If he did, though, seems like things might have been different.
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby Winkchen » Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:35 pm

If he did I think the shadows would have been defeted at that time and there wouldn`t be a shadow war 1000 years later. And without that war there wouldn`t be an alliance.
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby TerraFrost » Sun Jan 27, 2008 5:37 pm

Winkchen wrote:If he did I think the shadows would have been defeted at that time and there wouldn`t be a shadow war 1000 years later. And without that war there wouldn`t be an alliance.

That's my assessment, as well.

If a partial Vorlon ship exploded with a force of 1GT over Z'ha'dum's capital city, things might have gotten more out-of-hand, though. It seems to me that that was the impetus for the Vorlon's destroying planets, which in turn inspired the Shadows to do the same. I think that was the main reason Sheridan was able to create the Alliance.

Of course, Valen didn't have any partial Volorn ships, as far as anyone knows. And as far as we know, there weren't any races that might have formed an alliance with them, anyway. Certainly the remaining first ones wouldn't see the need to form an alliance with the Minbari. I mean, I'm sure there were alien races out there, but we never learn of any that go back as long as the Vorlons. I think I'll start a new topic on that :)
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Re: what would have happened if Sheridan didn't go to Z'ha'dum?

Postby Winkchen » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:12 pm

Are you sure Valen didn`t have any ships? The Vorlons were helping them, so maybe they had Vorlon ships, too.
Or the Vorlons helped the Mimbari to improve their ships.
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