time travel

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time travel

Postby TerraFrost » Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:22 am

time travel is neat if for no other reason than the paradoxes it creates...

one possibility is that the past affects the present affects the future, and vice versa. for example, if you go back in time, and shoot hitler, you can't. something will prevent you. somewhere, somehow, you'll be prevented. and that prevention will have always occured - you just may not know what it is. for example, you go back in time to shoot hitler while he's giving some speech, and you end up tripping on a rock, and dying yourself. history will record that someone has always died by tripping on a rock. you just may not know that that person who tripped on a rock was you. But... if you could do that, then the future would be influencing the past. If you didn't travel back in time to trip on the rock and die, would history have ever recorded it? No - not if it never happened. Thus the future and past are linked. But, what about the first time? If you can travel back in time, and do *anything* in the past, then as far as the past is concerned, the future has had to have happened. But the future builds on the past - if you could go to the past, from the future, then the past would depend on the future. our actions would have been predetermined from the very begining, which would have also been the very end. But, that's not even really an issue that has to be dealt with. There is evidence that the past effects the future. You build a house, and twenty years from now, it will still be here, in some form, be it destroyed, or not. It's effect will have been felt. If you build a house, it doesn't go back in time and change the past!
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Postby Evlfrost » Thu Dec 05, 2002 5:00 pm

i get a really big head ache when thinking about time travel-i mean if you go back to change something, arent you effecting the outcome and you in the new future would not go back to change it? in that case then did you change the past you you never went back again???
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Postby Dracofrost » Thu Dec 05, 2002 9:13 pm

Now why does traveling backwards in time to effect the past now seem similar to someone trying to fly by standing on something and trying to pick it up?
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Postby TerraFrost » Fri Dec 06, 2002 8:13 am

that sounds like it could be a neat analogy! :)
it would be neater if i better understood how it applied, though, heh.
could you elaborate? :)
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Postby Gigafrost » Fri Dec 06, 2002 11:04 am

I think I understand...it we be like somebody trying to achieve something (flying - changing timeline) by doing something simple (standing on item - traveling back in time) and doing something impossible because of where they exist (pick up the item they're standing on - change the past that they're a descendant from).

So pretty much, this analogy says that the only way you could change the past would be if it was a past that somehow didn't change your future...

I thought it was a really good analogy too. :)
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Postby Evlfrost » Fri Dec 06, 2002 10:50 pm

but why would you try to change a past that doesnt change your future? How would you know wether or not it would change your future?
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Postby Gigafrost » Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:15 am

You wouldn't be able to decide. This is pretty much saying that if you somehow went back into the past you wouldn't be able to change anything that affected your future. Anything! Even remotely!
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Postby OmegaFrost » Sat Dec 07, 2002 2:22 am

you wouldnt know because you would never know it changed. plus that anology is a paradox just like what time travel makes so thats a really good one.

And maybe it makes a new dimension or galaxy when you mess stuff up in the past or may be the universe colapsese and the big boom goes again and we go through every thing again with those changes added.

There chew on that a while. :lila:
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Dec 07, 2002 7:43 am

So pretty much, this analogy says that the only way you could change the past would be if it was a past that somehow didn't change your future...


thanks for the explanation! :)

although i can see one possible solution to this problem - time isn't linear, as we percieve it. it could be that our preception of it is just our brains trying to make since of a world, which, if we were to experience all at once, would overwhelm us. we are old and we are young all at the same time - we just don't know it. because if we did, we wouldn't be able to handle it. we can't handle it.
what are the advantages of a linear perception of time? Well... we can determine causation - through trial and error, we can find out what causes what, and we can then cause it ourselves. in that way, we can learn, grow, and develop. we can also "manage" our time. if humans had a unique perception of time, then that could be what gives man such an edge over all other types of animals. this perception of time could also drive animals insane (ie. fight amongst themselves as man does).

as for it creating a new dimension... iirc, dracofrost once said that that was disprooven? i've been meaning to look that up, heh :oops:
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Postby Dalaran » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:32 am

You said dimensions! I heard it, that's a segue!

From what I've heard if we accept the theory that unexplainable physical phonomenon is resolved on a demensional plane we cannot comprehend, e.g. Gravity, at least 11 deminsions would be required.

I like to think of the universe as a cube moving in a direction known as positive time. that why other demensions can easily be conceptualized be reducing the demensionality of the universe.
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Postby TerraFrost » Thu Dec 12, 2002 7:29 am

i think that's string theory you're refering too... it's actually kinda neat, and has several important phyisophical ramifications. i mean, if our perception of the number of dimensions in the universe can be wrong, what else can be wrong?

however, thinking of time like it's just another dimension, like length, width, and height, would suggest that the universe was linear, would it not? in which case, that would mean that the model i started this thread off with wouldn't work... and it would also suggest that you could go backwards and foward with time... so if the past can't be affected by the future, it seems like there really can be mulitple realities...
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Postby Evlfrost » Thu Dec 12, 2002 4:08 pm

Well an issuse that has been raised to my attention. Is there a creator? (Bear with me here.) If there is do you think he would let you mess up the time-space continnuim? If there isnt then time travel is a denfinite possiblity. Maybe they could use wormholes. Those are like a hole in the fabric of space. Since Einstein proved that time and space are connected maybe when you punch a hole through one, you can punch a hole through the other.
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Postby TerraFrost » Sun Jun 19, 2005 2:22 am

A slashdot.org article that was on this subject revealed an interesting wikipedia.org link that related to this subject:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novikov_se ... _principle

I haven't yet read the stuff at the link (or at the associated links) all that thoroughly, but it might prove interesting.

Based on what I did read, I guess the above is the formal name of that which I think I described in the first post of this thread.
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Postby shahmask » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:05 am

i was wondering how long it would take you to post that. took a lot longer than i was expecting.
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