your opinion on Micheal moore

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your opinion on Micheal moore

Postby chaco taco91 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 9:55 pm

Wats your opinion on micheal moore?? I think hes a total idiot and liar, and can say whatever he wants and no one will give him crap about it because he makes movies and is not a polotician.
I think moore is greek for dumbass.
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Postby TerraFrost » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:44 pm

i'm not sure what i think of michael moore, but i certainly don't think he's an idiot. he has articulated his opinions very well, has been extremely succesful in getting his opinions heard, etc. most people can only dream of being as succesful (with their attempts to inspire change) as he has been.

as for him being a liar... well, i think he would omit information, if it suited him. however, i don't think he's ever outright made information up. indeed, he has, on his website, provided (mostly multiple) sources for every line in Fahrenheit 9/11:

http://www.michaelmoore.com/warroom/f911notes/

i think wikipedia provides an informative discussion of the omissions michael moore made:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fahrenheit ... 7s_content
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Postby tsian » Sun Oct 03, 2004 10:48 pm

I would be more interested in your opinion of why you disagree with him or think he's an idiot. Right now it just sounds like you are repeating things you've heard with little understanding of the motives people have to undermine one person or another.. basically it sounds like you are repeating the right-wing line.

That said, I think Moore is a very, very good propagandist. He spins facts quite well and is great at only citing the facts which back up his claim. He makes entertaining movies that might make some people think, but they are by no means documentaries per se.
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Postby chaco taco91 » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:26 pm

why i disagree with micheal moore is because he dosn't tell the truth, i saw the movie and danm there was some funny part (like the time he was taking the army recruiters through the gheto mall :lol ) but when i saw it seemed just like propaganda, he dosn't need to tell the truth, because he has noting to lose. I am very much a right wing guy (blame it on the hippies im sorronded by every day) and what hes said ive heard before by some people. But what hes done is put a bunch of little things toughether to add a big piece of propaganda. I think anybody who is liberal and not a hippie should be angry at him.
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Postby tsian » Sun Oct 03, 2004 11:29 pm

Ok, again, please tell me where in his movie he lies? Where does he bend or play with the truth?

Overall, does he have more lies than facts? What is true in his movie? What would you say the biggest lie is?

(Incidentally, I can answer most of these questions, but since you seem to think he is lying, by all means prove it).
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Postby ChatOmbre » Mon Oct 04, 2004 12:49 am

chaco taco91 wrote:why i disagree with micheal moore is because he dosn't tell the truth, i saw the movie and danm there was some funny part (like the time he was taking the army recruiters through the gheto mall :lol ) but when i saw it seemed just like propaganda, he dosn't need to tell the truth, because he has noting to lose. I am very much a right wing guy (blame it on the hippies im sorronded by every day) and what hes said ive heard before by some people. But what hes done is put a bunch of little things toughether to add a big piece of propaganda. I think anybody who is liberal and not a hippie should be angry at him.


again with the thing about hippies. wtf?
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Postby Roadkill » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:05 am

as a left winger, my opinion is "who gives a fu...dgeknicke?" He balances things out. Neither side is right, so it's nice the way things are right now -- each attacking the other, because eventually it will force a stalemate, and compromise. Compromise isn't something that comes easy, ya know.
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Postby shahmask » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:33 am

choco, they really do target ghettoer areas because more wealthy areas have no reason to go into the military. their parents will pay/help with college. they usually have better job opportunies. they generally don't have a reason to get out of their area.

on the other hand, the poorer areas tend to have fewer jobs, much less chance of going to college, and the smarter ones want to get away from the violence/drugs/whathaveyou of the area and the millitary is about their only chance since they have no money and usually no skills. (thank bush and his cuts on job training/placement/assistance as well as his inability to keep up funding of higher education and soon his lapsing of the ban on assault weapons). it is true, the guys defending our country are not middle to upper class people. almost every single one of them is there for college funding or to get out of their neighborhoods. and instead of helping them, bush has sent them to hell in the middle east with a bunch of them ending up dead for no reason. then u get all of our reservists that are there to protect the us in a domestic ability. bush gets reellected, we are going to run out of new ppl joining the reserves and guards (as well as the military).

choco, it seems u like bush, so i am going to make a direct comparison between u and bush. u seem to not have thought this out very well. similarly, bush seems to not have though out iraq very well. even his dad did a much better job than him in long term planning. that's why we hadn't occupied iraq earlier.
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Postby ChatOmbre » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:42 am

shahmask wrote:choco, they really do target ghettoer areas because more wealthy areas have no reason to go into the military. their parents will pay/help with college. they usually have better job opportunies. they generally don't have a reason to get out of their area.

on the other hand, the poorer areas tend to have fewer jobs, much less chance of going to college, and the smarter ones want to get away from the violence/drugs/whathaveyou of the area and the millitary is about their only chance since they have no money and usually no skills. (thank bush and his cuts on job training/placement/assistance as well as his inability to keep up funding of higher education and soon his lapsing of the ban on assault weapons). it is true, the guys defending our country are not middle to upper class people. almost every single one of them is there for college funding or to get out of their neighborhoods. and instead of helping them, bush has sent them to hell in the middle east with a bunch of them ending up dead for no reason. then u get all of our reservists that are there to protect the us in a domestic ability. bush gets reellected, we are going to run out of new ppl joining the reserves and guards (as well as the military).



My Papa (one of my grandfathers) joined the Marines when he was younger because he wanted to eat... didn't really have much of a choice, his family wasn't doing too well on money and the likes, so the voys who were old enough went into the military.
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Postby shahmask » Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:50 am

exactly. and the only other ppl ive known to go into the military are this one guy who didn't really have a place to live or money to fall onto, a cousin that wanted to get the hell out of alabama, and a neighbor that felt that it was his best choice for the rest of his life. the first guy (used to be a huge bush supporter) hates bush for all he is worth, really hopes kerry wins (he was in iraq. haven't heard from him in a long time0. haven't heard from the cousin in a long time. the nieghbor thanks god everyday that he got hurt bad and was discharged before iraq.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Oct 04, 2004 3:26 am

exactly. and the only other ppl ive known to go into the military are this one guy who didn't really have a place to live or money to fall onto


Roadkill and Battlefrost (the two people i know of, on FJ, who want to join the army) don't seem to want to join it in an effort to get away from anything (although i could be wrong). Of course, since Battlefrost is otherwise occupied, the only person who'd reallly be able to provide any insight is RK...
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Postby shahmask » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:25 am

first, seeing as this is a message board, and therefore requires a computer, internet access, and a want to post online, i don't think this is the best sample of people to get a true sample of who goes into the military. same goes for your friends, seeing as most of them are here. roadkill is in fact the only person i have ever known to want to go into the military for none of the reasons ive stated. therefore, 3/4 ppl i know that have gone into the military for my stated reasons. then again, im not saying that this is a good sample. what i did say is most. and my sample, even though i admit it is probably bad, is most.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:50 am

first, seeing as this is a message board, and therefore requires a computer, internet access, and a want to post online, i don't think this is the best sample of people to get a true sample of who goes into the military. same goes for your friends, seeing as most of them are here.

you're about as qualified to make generalizations about my friends as i am about your friends :lila:

also..

what i did say is most. and my sample, even though i admit it is probably bad, is most.

what makes your bad sample better than my bad sample? :lila:

anyway, heh, i will grant that battlefrost and roadkill may not be well representative. however, if that is the case, it does beg the question - why are people no longer joining the military out of a sense of duty, or something? aside from the fact that there was a draft, most people, during WW2 were proud to join the military (or so i've heard - i don't have any site to back this up). perhapes the vietnam war disallusioned people? maybe, but if it did, and if anything were to negate the disallusionment it caused, i would think that desert storm i would have done it.

also, i assume we're not talking about the reserves, since their motivations are clearly not economic of escapist in nature.
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Postby shahmask » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:14 am

yawnmoth is terrafrost

ShahMAsk: my grandfather was drafted for wwii
ShahMAsk: he said it was hell
yawnmoth: my dad volunteered for the army
yawnmoth: and god only knows why
yawnmoth: heh

and you're right, when i say join the military, i dont mean reserves.

ok wiggie, how many of your friends don't post on this board?
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Oct 04, 2004 6:27 am

ok wiggie, how many of your friends don't post on this board?


first, i don't think there is any point in drawing a distinction between this board and castle reshka, for your point that "this is a message board, and therefore requires a computer, internet access, and a want to post online". indeed, i don't think there's a lot of point in drawing distinctions between this board and any board.

as such, i don't think your friends are all that different from mine. they either post on FJ or CR, to the best of my knowledge (which, as i hinted at, earlier, is by no means, comprehensive).

second, i need to make a distinction between friends and friendly aquantances. i don't have many friends, nor do i think many people do. most of my *friends* post on this board, but roadkill and battlefrost are not my friends so much as they are friendly aquantances. and as none of my "friends" (as i'm using the term) want to join the military at all, you're point about my friends' motivations' for joining the military is kinda moot.

now, as far as friendly aquantances are concerned... well, there are most of my coworkers. probably around three people for ea. class that i'm in (give or take a few for ea. class) i have ever been in, a butt load from my high school, etc.

none of them post on any message board i know of (with a comparitively few number of exceptions).

of course, this is really all off topic, now.

an argument is *not* made right simply because a lot of people agree with it. my point in posting that roadkill and battlefrost (both of whom post here - whether or not you know about battlefrost's posting here is another matter) seemed to want to join the military for different reasons were just to demonstrate, to you, and others, that there are other motivations, be they common, or not.

and whomever said that only that which is commonplace is fair game for discussion? most of the US isn't athiestic or agnostic, so, then, should discussions about god's existence be considered taboo topics, since most people already believe he does exist?
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