Hunting

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Postby OmegaFrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:13 pm

Nyu I dont personaly like hunting or think that it is fair towards the animals I just know that it is natural for a creature that is normaly predatory and is actually just givin its food to feel a need to expend the energy it would normaly use hunting for food, thats where sports come into play ( pardon the stupid pun) there purpose is to get rid of that excess energy. Why do you think they came up with gladitorial combat? to let the armies spend there energy.Thats why hunting is considered a sport. Personally you would never catch me hunting.
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Postby Nyufrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 11:37 pm

Perhaps I am not making myself clear.

Once again, in all sports that I can think of --including your latest example of gladiator vs. gladiator-- there is a common bond.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. vs. Jeff Gordon in an auto race is considered sport because both men are skilled in racing and have similar equipment. The best man will win based on luck, circumstance and a slight edge in skill or competitive spirit. But, your mom in the family car against them would not stand a chance, would she? First one across the finish line gets to kill the loser! So, how much of a sport would it be for your mom to try to race Jeff Gordon for her life?

The same holds true for a deer vs. a man with a rifle and a spotlight. In order for hunting to be a competitive sport, then the man needs to leave the weapon and spotlight at home and battle the deer with his bare hands, no?
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Postby Roadkill » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:04 am

racing is not a good example, as the reward is generally money and not life. To get that money you risk your life, though.

I do agree with gladitorial combat but sport hunting generally an entirely diferent matter. Gladiators, each person was trained to kill the other. Hunting, one is trained to kill, and the other to survive the predators. In many cases the prey creature gets away unscathed, with the predator suffering. No other real sport has a distinct difference between predator and prey. Predator is the one who hunts and kills, prey is the one that runs and evades the predator.

Sport hunting is made for 2 things, to practice and to fight off boredom. Practice is generally good as youll usually save the meet. Hunting to stave off boredom... stupid.
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Postby Nyufrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 12:44 am

My point is going over everyone's heads.

I realize the normal prize in racing is not one's life! Jesus! It was a metaphoric comparison of what is involved in being a sport, not the prize itself! :roll:
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Postby Roadkill » Tue Jan 21, 2003 1:46 am

still, you cant compare it. A prey animal is a prey animal. It runs and hides. A predator is a predator, it tracks out and kills the prey animal. Saying that one is hugely better than the other is not accurate. It varies, and it is always a gamble who wins or loses. Sure there are the "jeff gordons" of this system, but generally not. Usually its equal.

Humans... what makes them so powerful in their hunting? Guns. But does that mean they always win or mostly win? no. Alot more than pulling a trigger goes into finding a food source. Practice is required to become better. Does not a cat play with its prey when its stomach is full? They too, practice and play. Dogs and other creatures do this as well. IT is natural for a predator, now that i think of it.
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Postby Nyufrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:31 am

Dude, if ALL humans were out in the woods trying to kill animals, I might agree but it is very few.

A cat's way of killing it's prey involves what WE consider playing with it. They will grab a mouse with their claws and throw it up against a wall a few times until they knock it senseless and then kill it. Maybe they eat it, maybe they don't ... vetrinarians agree that this has something to do with whether they are lacking something in their diets. It has NOTHING to do with killing just for fun.

So, if you want to say dogs and cats are killing for fun, I don't agree with you but yeah ... let's go with it.

What is the cat using to kill the mouse with? What does a dog use to kill with? Do both use their claws and fangs?

If man is to be equated with dogs and cats then he needs to use his bare hands and teeth to kill his prey. Period.

Predators eat what they kill not mount the heads over their fireplaces like some savage chest beating trophy.

If a man can use a rifle to kill a deer and then mount its head on the wall, then why can't he kill his wife and mount her head on the wall as well? He's a predator and she's prey, no?
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Postby Evlfrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 2:59 pm

All hunters eat what they shoot. It would be a waste not to. If they killed more than what they can eat they give it away. Hunting takes skill and practice. You just cant exept to go out with a rifle and shoot something. Hunting is harder than I think you relize Nyu.
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 5:24 pm

All hunters eat what they shoot.


Omegafrost would seem to disagree with you...

I just know that it is natural for a creature that is normaly predatory and is actually just givin its food to feel a need to expend the energy it would normaly use hunting for food, thats where sports come into play ( pardon the stupid pun) there purpose is to get rid of that excess energy. Why do you think they came up with gladitorial combat? to let the armies spend there energy.Thats why hunting is considered a sport.
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Postby Evlfrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 6:07 pm

TerraFrost wrote:
All hunters eat what they shoot.


Omegafrost would seem to disagree with you...

I just know that it is natural for a creature that is normaly predatory and is actually just givin its food to feel a need to expend the energy it would normaly use hunting for food, thats where sports come into play ( pardon the stupid pun) there purpose is to get rid of that excess energy. Why do you think they came up with gladitorial combat? to let the armies spend there energy.Thats why hunting is considered a sport.



Where does it say that? Hunters do eat there catch, they just dont hunt for food.
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:02 pm

actually, hehe - i kinda misread your post :)
only humans shoot other animals, hehe.

but anyways, no - not all human hunters eat what they kill. for example, elephaunts are killed for no other reason than their ivory. in fact, their carcusses are usually left out on the open plains.
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Postby OmegaFrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:18 pm

Sport n. An activity involving physical exhertion and skill, governed by rules or customs and often undertaken competitevly.

That is straight out of the dictionary ok! where does it say that both sides have to be exactly the same? Can we end this pointless discussion now? And by the way those things about animals hunting without eating too or needing to come straight from the naked ape and my own personal experience. I'd also like to oint out that most sports are unfair because there are good teams and bad teams and they still play each other. Finaly about the tooth and fang thing nyu brought up humans dont have effective weapons of this sort so they create unatural ones ( a number of other animals do this too especially apes and primates). so....... Does ever one understand?... Good! :thumbs:

*edit:* sorry terra just saw your post there is a fish called the archer fish it spits at its prey and of course there is the electric eel.
Last edited by OmegaFrost on Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Roadkill » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:20 pm

humans are tool users, and thus they use something they made - a tool- to kill its food
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:34 pm

Can we end this pointless discussion now?


there really is no need to be condescending. for example, you could have said something like... hunting is, as per the dictionaries definition, a sport. whether or not it is a *fair* sport is an entirely different question.

i mean, there may have been some ambiguity, but you're just as much at fault as nyufrost is. i mean, you waited until like the 2nd page to make this point, and then, in so many words, insult nyufrost, before she even has a chance to respond? not cool.

that said, imho, you did make some good points, but your points could have been made with less malice than they were made with :lila:

anyways,

And by the way those things about animals hunting without eating too or needing to come straight from the naked ape and my own personal experience.


you no doubt only have experience, though, with domesticated animals :lila:

i mean, just because domesticated cats meow doesn't mean all cats meow - rather, they meow to get human attention. by the same token, just because domesticated animals hunt doesn't mean all animals in nature hunt :lila:
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Postby Nyufrost » Wed Jan 22, 2003 5:07 am

OmegaFrost ... I am aware of the dictionary definition of sport. I am also aware that the word "sportsman" is another way of saying big game hunter. I am further aware that hunting has been considered a sport for centuries.

I am arguing that hunting should not be considered a sport not that the dictionary says it is or is not. Clear enough?

You still have not provided any valid reasons you think it *should* be considered as such other than to break out the dictionary (which is not your opinion) and break the forum rules by attacking me on a personal level twice. Your last post was unnecessarily rude.

I believe both you and Evlfrost have called man a predator. In fact, anthropologists believe early man was a scavenger since he lacks the skills and tools to kill for food. It is believed that he lucked upon meat by finding already-dead things. As his brain developed, he learned to make fire to cook his meat and then sharp pointy weapons to kill for his own food.
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Postby OmegaFrost » Wed Jan 22, 2003 1:53 pm

My apolagies for sounding rude I'm just an egotisitcal megalomaniac so I make that mistake some times please for give me. Also if this may sound rude I'm not trying to be but I think this conversation is getting out of hand because all any one is doing, including myself, is saying that you are wrong and I am right. It is obvius no one apears to be listening to the other and I beleive we will come out of this at each others throats. I always say never discuss politics or religion and this is close to both. And by the way I might have been a litttle rude because I felt a little insulted... I'm not used to ever being told I am wrong. :oops:
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