Hunting

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Hunting

Postby Nyufrost » Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:50 pm

Split from the "Humans and Animals" thread.

Evl, how is hunting a valid sport?

Think of some other recognized sports ... football, baseball, basketball, soccer, auto racing. What do they all have in common? Everyone is using the same equipment and playing by the same rules, that's what.

Hunting .... one side has all the advantages. How is that a sport? Blind the deer with your spotlight and shoot it while it stands there staring at you. Excellent.

Like I said before ... the hunters should chase the deer on foot (rather than in pickup trucks and SUVs), then they should attack the deer with their bare hands and if they can wrestle it to the ground and break its neck, then hey, they are superior. In truth, the deer would escape every time. So, man is NOT superior to the deer in speed, strength or agility. Is he superior in intelligence? If so, would he not realize that all this was true rather than killing another living creature for the fun of killing it just so he can beat his chest to his friends about how many kills he's made?

You're right ... man *does* have the natural instinct to kill. However, we are all taught it is wrong and so the feelings are supressed generation after generation. But, sometimes people snap and revert back to nature, thus killing others.
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Postby Evlfrost » Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:32 pm

Hunting is not where you just sit in a tree and drink beer. Nor do hunters drive around in pickup trucks chasing deer. They ascribe to the rules of fair chase. In other words it is illegal to chase deer in a pickup truck. In most states its illegal to bait deer. Hunters learn through experiance deer habits and how they are affected by the weather and whatnot. And if we are not suprerior in intellignce than why is it not all right to kill other animals? Other animals do.

There are three things that make a good hunter: Woodsmanship, Sportsmanship, and Marksmanship. Woodsmanship is being able to track the animal that you are hunting, knowing its habits and the place you are hunting. Sportsmanship is ascribing to fair chase. Its no fun if you run it down with a truck nor is it fair to the animal. Marksmanship is being able to hit the animal in the place that will kill it so that it suffers as little as possible.
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Postby TerraFrost » Fri Jan 17, 2003 10:04 pm

well, i don't think hunting is exactly a challenging sport, persay. i mean, hunters can hunt tons of dear, and can kill tons of dear. they actually *live* from each hunt to learn from the hunt. dear who undergo hunts don't tend to survive - they're only hunted once, and aren't really able to learn from their mistakes, as their mistakes get them killed.

anyways, all that said, i personally don't have a problem with hunting. i think it appeals to the same type of people who would like paint balling, laser tag, hide and go seek, or whatever, and i don't think that there is anything wrong with those. of course, no one dies in any of those. i guess i'm rather apathetic when it comes to killing...

also, here's an interesting link on the subject:

http://www.api4animals.org/doc.asp?ID=70
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Postby OmegaFrost » Fri Jan 17, 2003 11:32 pm

Heres the deal okay its natural to hunt and even cats and dogs that get fed 20 times a day will want to hunt. Hunting has been programed into us for 4 billion years its simply human nature. Finally I know hunters who will refuse to hunt with a gun because its unfair too the dear and will only use a bow and arrow plus these hunters dont eat any meat all winter except the meat they have hunted down them selve that way they actually use what the hunt.
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Postby Gigafrost » Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:27 am

I wouldn't say it's been programmed into us for 4 billion years...first, humans haven't been around that long. Second, we can only successfully hunt creatures with the tools we use.

As for the entire thought of hunting, I think that hunting for sport is for the most part unappropriate, but I'm still kinda grey on the whole overpopulation-thinning part. I hear starving to death is supposed to be one of the most painful deaths... :(
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Postby Roadkill » Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:44 am

i have no problem with hunting. tracking is actually pretty hard. Sportsmanship isnt with a gun, imho. I would attempt to trap it and slay it with a knife, or chase it down with a knife. But then again im just a rbid wolf

marsmanship obviously doesnt fit into my equation, but i do suggest a clean kill.
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Jan 18, 2003 12:53 am

Heres the deal okay its natural to hunt and even cats and dogs that get fed 20 times a day will want to hunt.


that's actually a good point :)
although, pets are domesticated animals, so i'm not sure pets even count :lila:
domestication could be seen as almost a pervision of nature. we're corrupting animals with our own moral values, heh. i mean, it isn't natural for a horse, for example, to let people ride it - so why should we expect other natural qualities from them?
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Postby OmegaFrost » Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:27 am

well terra were domesticated arent we. :p So I say it is pretty close to the point. And to giga it is theorised that it was 4 billion years ago when humans eperated from other apes and begant o evolve as humans or I might have the numbering wrong by puting a B wher a M should be. :oops:
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Jan 18, 2003 3:36 am

well terra were domesticated arent we.


well, my point was that it is unnatural for pets to be domesticated, so what's natural for unnatural animals really says nothing about what's natural for natural animals :lila:

of course, it was a rather impromptu point, so it might not be right, heh.

i mean, sure - we're domesticated, too... of course, such domestication isn't exactly nature's doing, but rather our own. of course, i guess this would all depend on whether or not you believe in fate, and that we are but slaves to natures grand plan.
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Postby Nyufrost » Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:43 pm

I have a bit of a problem with this poll. I didn't start it and I don't like the question. The question SHOULD be "Is Hunting for sport wrong?" :|
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Postby Evlfrost » Sun Jan 19, 2003 11:23 pm

Ok I deleted the poll. I feel that there is nothing wrong with hunting for sport. It is only natural.
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Postby Nyufrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 4:58 am

Hunting for sport is NOT natural or more people would do it and fewer would be repulsed by it!

You have not yet explained how hunting even qualifies as a sport. Did you read what I said about other sports?
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Postby OmegaFrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 7:57 pm

Nyu I would like to point out that you are being closed minded we have explained you just wont listen.
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Postby Nyufrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 8:05 pm

I would like to point out that you have NOT explained HOW it can be considered a sport. All you have made clear is that you probably have friends or relatives who hunt so you don't want to see anything wrong with it. ;)

I know people who hunt, too, but it doesn't close my mind to the fact that it is NOT a sport when one side has a different set of rules and equipment than the other side.

A man with a high powered rifle and a spotlight vs. a deer with nothing is like a boxing match between Mike Tyson and Brittney Spears!

Why do you think they have different weight classes in boxing, btw? To make it fair, no?

Now ... quit hiding behind the old "calling the opponent names" routine and justify why you think hunting is a sport.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jan 20, 2003 9:40 pm

Omegafrost - there have been plenty of counter points made which you, yourself have failed to address - does that mean you are being closed minded?

to recap the point i made, just because domesticated animals hunt recreationally doesn't mean it is natural for them to do so - i mean, it isn't natural for them to be domesticated in the first place. now i did say it might not be right, but if it isn't right, then it should be easy for you to counter :lila:
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