A new language

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A new language

Postby Roadkill » Sat Nov 01, 2003 2:11 am

Anyone ever give any thought to what the most efficient language would be?

how it would run through the mind, in a certain path made possible through the structure of the language, and the form so it can be communicated as quickly. How it would be like...
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Postby Dracofrost » Sat Nov 01, 2003 7:18 am

Do you mean like Esperanto was intended to be?
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Postby Evlfrost » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:18 pm

Well thinking about it....it would definatly be highly inflected.

Noun wise there would be three declensions (fenamin, masuculine, and nueter.) All adjectives would have to match the nouns in case, and gender. There would be five cases: Nomnative(subject), Genitive(Possessive),Dative(Indirect Objects),Accusative(Direct Objects), and the Ablative(Prepositional Objects).

Verb wise there would be six conjugations: present, future, perfect, pluperfect, future perfect, and the imperfect. The present has a an infinitive and an imperitive.

Articles are implied and do not need to be spoken.

Word order is as followed nouns, adverbs, verbs. All adjectives follow the nouns they are modifing. All conjuctions are inserted where needed. The nouns presedince order is as followed: Nomnative, accusative, genitive, dative, and ablative.

Well thats a rough draft anyways. It seems rather easy and simple while very logical imo. And yes it does resemble latin grammer alot :)
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Nov 01, 2003 9:55 pm

i don't see why any "perfect" language would need gender, nor do i see why adjectives would have to match in case and gender. in french, for example, a word with a masculine gender will very often mean something *different* than a word with a feminine gender, so at that point, one has to wonder... why not just forgoe gender, and just create two different words?

as for your order... if adjectives are pretty much equiv. to unary operators in boolean logic, then there's no reason they shouldn't go before the adjective, either. i mean, consider not. you say not a, or a. so, why not say fast runner or runner?

i also don't think that there's any reason why the order you presented would be the most efficient order, either, but i can't think (and don't want to think, hehe) of any other examples :)

finally, one of our members, tsian, is taking japanese, which seems to be quite different than english in terms of how stuff is structured. i think it'd be interesting for him to post about that, as an example of just how dynamic grammatical structures can be.
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Postby Evlfrost » Sat Nov 01, 2003 10:17 pm

a word with a masculine gender will very often mean something *different* than a word with a feminine gender, so at that point, one has to wonder... why not just forgoe gender, and just create two different words?


Well its just easier to remember. Like compare the latin words for brother and sister: filia and filius to sister and brother. Instead of having to remember completly different words you would just have to remember the root and a universal ending. So the gender inflections just have more information and makes the language cleaner.

The adjective following the noun just makes things more interesting-kinda keeping you on the edge of you seat while hes talking. :)

As for the word order, Im not sure why that would be more effiecent. Its just a standardized word order to help stablize it a bit. As it is highly inflected, you really dont need a word order.
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Postby Roadkill » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:38 pm

Evl, you almost described the russian language, where:

nouns are classified as masculine, femanine, or nueter. They are also either animate or inaminate. There are 6 declensions - nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, instrumental, and propositional (locative). i havent gotten to conjugation yet, but absence of articles and everything...

The only words that are made into feminine form are things like names, that could be describing femanine forms.

adjective, as far as i know, precede the noun. Adverbs preced the verbs.

That sounds alot like Russian, though.

Heres an interesting thought. Does it need actual WORDS? why not a simple, highly modifiable code, with multiple variables? (pitch, intensity, length, loudness)
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Postby Evlfrost » Sat Nov 01, 2003 11:47 pm

Oh uh heh I was actually basing it off of latin grammer.

As far as your idea goes, arnt words just a simple code anyways? More simple than your thing as words dont need loudness (well in some ways we use loudness in our speech to portray our point).
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Postby Roadkill » Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:31 am

using all variables we can find within sound, and teaching the language from birth will provide them with necessary dexterity and sensititivity to speak the tongue. Thus we have a highly complex but highly definite language, and by modifying multiple variables at once we can portray more information faster.

The only arguement against this language is it becomes so specific that it becomes boring... And boring things tend to die...
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Postby Evlfrost » Sun Nov 02, 2003 6:17 am

Why would you want something highly complex? I think something clean and effecient would be best.
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Postby Roadkill » Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:03 pm

WEll, effecient you also take into account time. YOu could have something like the ents, well rounded but highly tedious. Complexity like that pushes the brain - it makes it have to process it through multiple areas of the brain at nearly the same time. Thus the brain is more excercised, and the person thinks better and faster.
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Postby tsian » Sun Nov 02, 2003 7:20 pm

What about the ents?

And, just out of curiosity, why not develop a language which is both simple and complex?

More simple than your thing as words dont need loudness (well in some ways we use loudness in our speech to portray our point).

Sort of. There are many languages where inflection and tone change meaning.
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