human cloneing?

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Postby BluKing » Sun Jan 05, 2003 12:18 am

you have to watch the movie The 6th Day, with Arnold Schwarzenegger to truely understand what i'm talking about :D
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Postby Evlfrost » Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:19 pm

I have mixed veiws about cloneing. I belive that cloneing for stem cells is like abortion, it is killing a human life. However I really dont know enough about other cloneing to have an opinion.
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Postby BluKing » Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:04 pm

Stem cells aren't exactly advanced enough to be considered human...certain elements constitute a human life and stem cells aren't advanced enough to be considered that. To me, it's no different than using lab rats.
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Postby Evlfrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 2:07 pm

I talked with several people about cloneing and they were really against it. Even if you did clone your dead child that would not replace the one you lost. Look at identical twins, they are geniticaly the same but have different personalitys and sometimes even looks. If you had a pair of identical twins and one died would that replace the one you lost?
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:03 pm

back to the whole stem cells thing... the more kids a parent has, the more they are taxed. however, parents aren't taxed for fetuses. so it seems to me that there is already legal precidense for stem cell research.

now to the identical twin argument... i agree... whether or not that kid comes out to be the same as you depends on his life experience just as much as it depends on his genetics, and there's no way you're going to be able to give that kid the same life experiences that the other kid had.
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Postby Evlfrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:06 pm

But if you have to kill the fetus to get stem cells that is wrong.
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Postby BluKing » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:28 pm

This is where i get a bit angered...you are quick to say it's wrong too kill a fetus, but it's ok to kill animals? To me it's a bit hyprocitical...
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Postby Gigafrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:57 pm

Another thing...cloning might be a way to acquire stem cells without cloning a fetus. It would be about taking and original stem cell, but instead of having it develope into a person you culture it like bacteria. Heck, how can that be killing a fetis when it's not only still alive but being put into everybody? That fetis would then be god, in a sense.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 7:57 pm

well, to be fair, i don't think Evlfrost has said, anywhere in this thread, that it's ok to kill animals, either ;-)

and i don't think you can culture stem cells, either. bacteria only requires "food" to grow. but with stem cells, or any kind of human cell... you kill the "host", and they too will eventually "die".
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Postby Gigafrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:06 pm

I'm pretty sure you can culture cells...they do that all the time, and Stem Cells would be the easiest to culture I'd think since they're the most potent cells known...heck, the latest experimental treatment for Alzheimer's involved taking Stem Cells from the guy's legs...or maybe from the brain itself. I can't remember, but I remember specifically that they cultured the stem cells they got and numbered them into the millions, then they put them back into his head where his symptoms dropped dramatically...
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:33 pm

well, you might have said that in your original post - i mean, no need to leave yourself open to counters when you can preemptively counter those counters. or at the very least, post what you had heard, and then bring it all together by saying how, if each of those conditions are true, then this should be true, as well.
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Postby BluKing » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:36 pm

I wasn't actually refering to EvlFrost solely. I was more or less refering to most people who are against Stem Cell research...for instance, Pres. Bush is hardly a vegitarian, he actually hunts animals for sport. This is indeed a moral issue...but the majority of people just twist morals to fit there own ends and that seems entirely to hyprocritical for me.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jan 06, 2003 8:46 pm

that's true... although saying its wrong, and actually not doing it because its wrong are two different things - i mean, i'm sure most criminals know that what they're doing is wrong, but that doesn't stop them. of course, in order to be a criminal, you have to break the law. for things like eating meat when killing animals is wrong... i can imagine a large number of people who deep down inside feel its wrong, but since no one really cares, it's that much easier to do. so i don't think that eating meat necessarily means that you're ok with the killing of animals... it may just mean that you've grown rather apathetic to it.
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Postby BluKing » Mon Jan 06, 2003 9:02 pm

Well killing animals is NOT wrong, it's needed for us to survive. We can't survive off of plants, the earth will become infertile. I find people are hyper-sensative to certain issues and maybe haven't fully thought it through.
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Jan 07, 2003 1:15 am

i'm not saying killing animals is wrong - well, it sorta looks like i am, heh, but that's not what i meant to say :)
i was trying to say that i don't think it'd be hypocritical for someone to eat animals while thinking that abortion / stem cell research / whatever is wrong :)

also, i put the 6th day in my rental queue on netflix.com, so i should be getting it someday to watch :)
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