Time Travel

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Time Travel

Postby Roadkill » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:34 pm

ok... meant to post this for a while but was unable too, but if you look back, terra had made a post on theories to time travel...

Now could someone please explain to me how einstein's equation (E=MC^2) proves time travel.

Instant rebuttals
1 - wen you go faster than the speed of light, you can't really look back because the light cant catch up to you(and you catch all the light that should exist in front of you), but if you could, you would see things bgo backwards because the current light hasnt reached you yet. But if you turned around, you would see it accelerate until you reached their, until you reached present. Thus it gives you the illusion of time travel.
2 - (for pod the mass of jupiter one) The way i got this one is the mass absorbs the energy within the center of the pod, and thus the movement of molecules is slowed, or perhaps skewed (which could kill you since it would throw off physics a bit). If it was just slowed, then basically everything inside doesn't age as fast, so you think you traveled through time.
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Postby Gigafrost » Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:46 pm

I don't think Einstein's equation by itself proves time travel. As I recall, it only proves...

1) That energy and mass are the same

2) That if the speed of light isn't perfectly constant that space\time curves (Because then the light constant would create a parabola)


Now, as for your first rebuttal of the speed-up only causing an illusion of time travel...that's fallacious because the idea wasn't reached because of some observation people made. Unless you'd like to convince me that people have traveled significantly close to the speed of light to actually observe it. :p
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:22 pm

i wasn't aware that einstein's equations were supposed to prove time travel, heh.

however, to counter your second point... what most people think of when they think of time travel is being able to travel to the future *or* the past.

if the special theory of relativity were to say anything about time travel, it seems to me that it'd say that it's possible to go into the future (but not the past). does that even qualify as time travel, at that point? i dunno, heh.

of course, something else to consider is... if time travel is to just travel to the future... we do that, already. we do that just by living, heh.
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Postby Roadkill » Sun Sep 21, 2003 4:31 pm

well, i do believe many of those theories used that or something else associated with speed of light to "prove" time travel. I always look at these things from a material point of view, so i'm wondering how this other point of view proves it.

by material point of view, i mean matter in relation to all its laws and how it works in the basics. To do travel into the past or future, you have to basically totally reconstruct the universe atom by atom and electron by electron to the exact way it was before -- a pretty much impossible task, unless the parallel universe idea comes in, in which case you cannot forget that these can also have varying laws of physics and matter.

If you wanted to travel into the past, youd have to reverse the ENTIRE laws of nature completely until you reach that point in time, while also prserving those laws in the machine you use to protect yourself and it, and then change them back to stop it. SPeed up the laws for future travel. ANd even if that were true, dont forget that the world of the future will still be greatly affected by that bubble of matter you are preserving yourself in. ANd the past would too, now that i think of it.

SO someone explain to me how those other views came to be thought of as entirely possible with flawless performance.
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Postby Gigafrost » Sun Sep 21, 2003 7:26 pm

I don't know how the theories came into being, however I suspect that it is based upon formulas that have been developed. I would think that it's something people observed as a natural consequence of multiple formulas. Sort of like how Einstein's theory of Relativity says that space-time is curved.

Anyways, I don't have the physics depth to give the exact details of it. I could look on the internet, but I've got homework to do. So instead, I'd like to point out that you're making a few assumptions that make it impossible for you to believe that time travel exists...

1) You're assuming that molecules only work mechanically and only in the way you understand...

2) and that they always take the same amount of time relative to other molecules...

3) In other words, you're assuming that molecules can't be sped up\slowed down because of time.

4) In other words, you're saying that time travel is impossible because time travel is impossible, not WHY time travel is impossible.

Now, I don't want to think that you've misunderstood what we talked about to say that the theories of time travel mean that you jump instantly into some point in the future or past. The theories of time travel presented have been that the time-passage for certain entities could be sped up (so that it would reach the future sooner). Or rather, that for those molecules moving forward in time faster other molecules seem to be working faster, relatively.

Those are the theories, anyways.
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Postby Roadkill » Wed Sep 24, 2003 10:30 pm

but you cant go into the definite future without affecting it yourself, and the past requires a complete reversal, so you can through that out the window for the next couple millenia...

you cant observe something without affecting it, and you certainly cant interact with it without affecting it.... so.. whats the point?
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Postby Gigafrost » Thu Sep 25, 2003 1:03 am

Travel into the past isn't necessarily possible, but there is a theory on how to do it (but you would only be able to travel back to when the time machine was made.) For the most part, we aren't worried about the past in general, more like time traveling in general.

Traveling into the future, by current theories, only has that matter travels into the future faster than other matter by some event (different levels of gravity, coming close to the speed of light, etc).

Now, I have to wonder what you mean by observing events. We weren't talking about observing the future or the past, but rather traveling there, which is much more invasive by any account. I don't think that changing a state is relivant unless you're talking about traveling into the past, though.
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Postby slayerchange » Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:20 am

Think that you have time machine, so that you can go future or past.
Now, suppose you are saying that , if I have the time machine ,I will come at this point in time. Can you see anyone near you likes you?? :) Nayy.
The theory says ,
if we know the velocities of all the particles in the universe and also the coordinates of them, the we will be able to know the future, which is nothing but the results of mathematical theorems that are using these nformation as inputs and outs outputs simply. :)(It is the longest english sentences ,I wrote :) )
But it is not true if we know (velocity,coordinate) of all the particles in the universe and we want to calculate (!) the past. Here is the law.
Kaos -> Now
Now->Fututre. U cannot determine kaos, since,ok.. :) it's enough.
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Postby Roadkill » Tue Oct 21, 2003 10:36 pm

i hope you are including electrons in your list of particles, cecause if one swings the wrong way... its screwed up.

And if its in a brain or nerve, it will certainly affect the actions of the user as his thought has been altered.....
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:05 am

hesinberg's uncertainty principle is actually kinda neat in that it provides a scientific basis for randomization. in that way, it can kinda be used as a counter for predeterministic arguments - if we can not know when a particle will decay we can not know what the ultimate fate of the universe, 'cause there won't be one. however, this isn't really a rationale for free will, either, because we could still be slaves to physical reactions...
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Postby slayerchange » Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:59 am

hesingberg's uncertainty says we cannot determine momentum,coordinate since if we try; they will change. So they are undetermined. .. However, it does not mean we can't know them :).(we can't see,or, sciencitifcly experiment them)
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