Life on Mars

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Life on Mars

Postby Nyufrost » Sat Jun 28, 2003 11:24 am

It seems that NASA scientists have discovered the presence of FROST (not Giga) on Mars which they conclude could make a case for past or present life on the red planet because frost would turn to water and thus support life forms.

Abundant Ice Makes Case for life on Mars

Odyssy Orbiter Watches Frosty Mars

Because NASA is so excited by this discovery, they are lauching a second rover today (June 28th) and they have even bigger plans for the year 2009. I'm not sure why there is a 6 year delay ... perhaps there is a funding problem or something.

The Canadians want in though and are hoping to supply NASA with some mining equipment in exchange for some space lab space. (no pun intended but hehehe anyway)

Canadians want Science Lab

What do you think ... is their life on Mars? And, if so, what kind?

I wish my mother would post. She has a good theory on this. :bah
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Postby Neerowolf » Sat Jun 28, 2003 1:33 pm

I heard they had discovered water on mars, but if there *were* lifeforms, then would they need water to live? I mean, Oxygen is really a highly poisonous gas. How do you know that they didn't eat the rocks?
Just a theory...

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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Jun 28, 2003 5:16 pm

well, ya know... one life forms poison is what another life form can't live without :lila:

in that way, when environmentalists say we're killing the earth... we're not - we're just making it nicer for a new species! not that we should take much comfort in that, heh.
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Postby Dracofrost » Sun Jun 29, 2003 9:57 am

I personally wouldn't be really that surpirsed if there were current life forms on Mars. I mean, there are some organisms living here on earth that if just adapted to colder clime could do quite while on Mars (namely certain types single celled organisms that operate on a very slow metabolism, metabolising iron and existing entirely underground in rocks. And just look at all the iron on Mars! It's red because it's rusty with iron oxide all over the surface.). And even if there is no current life on mars, I really would find myself rather surprised if there had never been any lifeforms on it in the past.
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Postby WRB » Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:41 pm

Yeah, they discovered water a while ago. Ice caps on the north and south poles=ICE which is what they found a while ago. My guess is that there WAS life, but something happened ( a large weapon went off, stopped spinning at the rate required to maintain an atmosphere, blah blah blah...) and the water stuck to the poles. I dont see why they are getting excited about this frost. Just seems like passing a water fountian in the dessert and being excited over a half-full bottle of Aquafina(sp?)
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Postby Gigafrost » Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:43 pm

I'd think they're excited because the ice caps are supposed to be frozen carbon dioxide and so it seemed doubtful that mars actually had life?
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Postby WRB » Mon Jun 30, 2003 1:45 am

Ha. We Extra Terrestorial belivers have come to acept that ETs are differant than us. You clingie types stick to the idea that "They" would be just like us, which they wont, mostlikely. Which reminds me of a great book that talks about this. "The Sphere" by Michal Criton or Crichton, or some thing. The other of the "Andromida" series.
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Postby Gigafrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:22 am

That's a mighty insulting post you have there. It seems like you're saying we're all stupid or something...we're not saying they're just like us. We're saying that if we find conditions like ours then there could be life like ours. You are making added assumptions about us and trying to beat us down with them. In my book, this is called an unprovoked attack and you should watch your tongue.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 2:32 am

well, i don't know if your an post was an attack, WRB, but giga's right...

consider this...

a cloud could very well be a life form, if you use a broad enough definition. so could a rock. *anything* on this planet could be a life form - we just don't know the nature of any other forms of life save for life like ours. so, when scientests say life form, they mean life forms like us.

something else to consider... consciousness doesn't fall under the biological definition of life, yet on st:tng, everyone said data was alive. no - he's conscious - he isn't alive. unless, of course, the definition of life should change, which perhapes it should. do you think the definition of life should include consciousness? if an AI program were made that had consciousness should it be considered alive? if so, then that means anything can be alive - it's consciousness may just not have a way to express itself - for example, a rock could be conscious, but i imagine the life of a conscious rock would be like being in an eternal prison, heh.

of course, that said, i don't think consciousness exists. i don't think we're really conscious, persay - i think we're just an ultra complex web of instinct, but.. that's another debate :lila:
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Postby Nyufrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 3:55 am

"The Sphere" is a good book but completely the imagination of the author and totally fictional.

I don't think NASA scientists are expecting to find humanoid alien forms like the "ET's" you are referring to, WRB. Since no one has ever *seen* a space alien then I don't think you can say who is "right or wrong" in their perceptions of what they may or may not look like. Also, Giga did not express whether or not he believes in ET's so I think you prematurely called him a clingie-type, eh? As he said, you might want to watch out for that.

Anyways, I think the scientists may be excited to find any low forms of life that may still exist --such as bacterias-- that would prove that life once existed there.

If they prove that, then there would be reason to believe that life once existed on the outer planets as well and that in the future, the Earth could be the next Mars and a new civilization will start over on Venus.
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Postby Gigafrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:13 am

Venus will remain uninhabitable for a *very* long time. The best we could do to make it habitable would be to severely change the atmosphere...possibly with genetic engineering, but the planet might be too close to the sun and might burn everything that tries to live on it.

Mars is uninhabitable mostly because...

1) I believe the atmosphere is less dense...

2) Low oxygen in the atmosphere, naturally...

3) Practically non-existant magnetic field...

Now, there's good reason to believe that the Earth's magnetic field has been functioning for quite some time. I think that the ozone layer could potentially be fixed by getting more ozone up there in the future. Ozone is supposedly just 3 oxygen molecules, and there's a lot down here.

Also, life like ours can't really exist on the outer planets...although there's one moon with a slight possibility...but the outer planets are way too far from a constant energy source to flourish with any kind of life. There's a sort of belt around a star, and if a planet is within that belt then life as we understand it can exist.

The single moon that has any potential for life like ours is one of jupiter's icy moons. It's possible that the heat from the core creates liquid water under the ice at a certain depth, but then again, environment is one thing, triggers are another. It is estimated that the conditions of the early Earth might have produced life...recreating similar conditions in lab experiments have generated some of the amino acids used in life. Other amino acids can be found in space debris. Sugar molecules apparently even exist in far-off nebulas.

But, that all said, it would be a *very* long time before humans could potentiall live on the surface of any other body in the system. If we could jump-start Mars' magnetic field somehow and use something to increase the oxygen content in the atmosphere such as biotechnology or nanotechnology, began planting lots and lots of plants and getting what water there is in useful places...then Mars stands some chance of being habitable again, but that's very wishful thinking.

Anywho, I'd like to add thoughts on a very special man-made life form...the computer virus. Sure, they don't adapt and evolve, but they reproduce on their own. They use the energy of a system (namely, a computer system) to build copies and send them off. I at least consider them to be primitive sorts of life.
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Postby Dracofrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 4:49 am

Well, also, one could argue that of course there is life on mars; the various microscopic life forms that went along with any lander, and may or may not have survived.
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Postby Nyufrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 11:20 am

Venus is indeed too close to the sun to support human life at this time just as Mars is too far from the sun.

However, I think it is possible there was once intelligent human life on Mars and --as the planet moved farther and farther away from the sun and became uninhabitable-- they migrated to Earth. This would explain several oddities such as the Pyramids of Egypt and the ancient runways found in the Mayan ruins.

I'm not really sure what would explain why they reverted in intelligence once they got here though. Perhaps it was atmospheric differences or perhaps they suffered a nuclear disaster of some sort.
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Jun 30, 2003 5:29 pm

the only people who see runways on mayan ruins are UFO conspiracy theorists :lila:

anyways, there is a theory that life originated on mars (or perhapes some coment from some other solar system, or whatever) and came to earth from this way:

http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/questi ... number=125

in looking for the name of the theory on google, it's called panspermia, and although the next site i'm going to provide seems to use it as an alternative to drawninism, it seems to me to be more an alternative to abiogenesis - the theory that explains how life originated (as opposed to how it evolved once it was in place). but, it doesn't seem to be much of an alternative, even, because life had to originate somewhere... here's the link i mentioned:

http://www.panspermia.org/marslife.htm
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Postby WRB » Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:14 am

That's a mighty insulting post you have there. It seems like you're saying we're all stupid or something...we're not saying they're just like us. We're saying that if we find conditions like ours then there could be life like ours. You are making added assumptions about us and trying to beat us down with them. In my book, this is called an unprovoked attack and you should watch your tongue.

Very sorry. It was originally ment as a joke. No feelings were hurt were they?
And Dracofrost had an idea. It invoved very large mirrors. Well, he can tell you.
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