Moral thoughts...

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Moral thoughts...

Postby Gigafrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:29 pm

Yeah, quite a few that I've experienced recently...thoughts and comments...maybe this is the wrong forum for this...I dunno...

1. On Truth and Honesty...
Recently, we read this poem by Emily Dickenson in class...

Tell all the truth but tell it slant-
Success in Circuit lies
Too bright for out infirm Delight
The Truth's superb suprise
As Lightning to the Children eased
With Explanation kind
The Truth must dazzle gradually
Or every man be blind-


Very interesting idea...it says that the true\whole\unsensored truth hurts people and you have to dance around it. Pretty much, if you look at what it means to try and be an honest and truth-telling individual, it turns out to be a piece of crap that just hurts you and other people.

2. On Internet Relations...
While they may seem okay, I have experienced a lot in the last few weeks to back up my conclusion; that no matter what you intend to say, something is always misinterpreted. The biggest problem is that on the internet it seems to happen alot more often...you need to explain yourself more...and when somebody's emotions are on the line this just ends up hurting you and them. People will either fill in these "blanks" with their hopes or their fears. Hopes will leave the person grossly disappointed in the end, though, and fears will leave the person feeling hurt before finding the true meaning.

3. On Trust...
Whenever I've got trust in someone I find that it either doesn't matter to that person or they somehow hurt me because of it. In fact, it seems to hurt both people at times. Perhaps it feels as if you can trust yourself, but I would say that this is not the case...you hurt yourself and fail yourself at times, too. This means that there's nobody and nothing you can really trust...or rather, should trust to not hurt you.

4. Conclusion...
Pretty much, I guess this just shows how messed up we humans really are. We're social animals designed to hurt eachother by socializing. How stupid and ironic.
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Postby OmegaFrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 1:51 pm

the problem is that nothing is perfect but I have had planty of times where trusting soemone has worked and where telling the truth may be painful to people but they still prefer it.
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Postby Rend » Wed Mar 19, 2003 2:25 pm

I would have to disagree with number three.

Mutual trust is a beautiful and a great thing. It does not happen often, however, that two people trust each other so completely.

I feel blessed to say that it has happened to me before though.

Back in Sicily, i was once attacked by an entire hive of bees. They were swarming around me and everything and I couldn't get them away, it was a horrible experience at the time. I felt isolated, and i was being attacked.

However, out of nowhere like the first shaft of light in sunrise, TWO of my friends came to help me. They actually got stung, themselves, to come help me in my time of need.

That is what I consider a good friend. Anyone willing to expose themself to danger and pain for your sake, I would treasure.

In conclusion, although the majority of human-to-human relationships may turn sour when you least expect it and least want it to, it isn't the 100% case. True friendship is a miracle that happens, from time to time.
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Postby Evlfrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:19 pm

Well I disagree with #1. Even though the truth hurts, it is always better than lies. Recently my sister was in a simular situation were one of her friends wasnt taking her medicine and was taking huge amounts of ibprofen instead. This was at the OTC and she told the couches about it. So in telling the truth she might have hurt her friend a little bit, but helped her a lot more. And I agree with Terras statements about #3.
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Postby Gigafrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 5:19 pm

Unfortunately, you have no idea when such miracles will occur...and there's probably a degree of trust you can place in someone that *will* hurt you. This means you can't really completely trust anybody.

It's nice to know that you had friends help you in your time of need...here's my question, though. Although you can depend on them to offer physical assistance in times of need, would they actually do the same thing for something emotional? What about something damaging...maybe you did something in the past they'll hold against you...or maybe they don't care that you did something...there are other ways to be hurt. Doesn't mean that it's limited to that. Even without those, the trust in friends to throw themselves in danger when one is in danger is, in itself, hurting the friends.

It's obvious why we'd prefer hurting ourself to letting others get hurt; it's built into us to help us survive. It's probably the core of the social structure of many creatures. Doesn't change the fact that others are being hurt because of it. We're merely choosing which kind of hurt to endure because of trust.
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Postby Dracofrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 6:35 pm

Sure, there's always pain and hurt. Doesn't mean you can't lessen it to the point that it doesn't matter. Perhaps "No pain, no gain" applies to more than just exercise? And there's also a reason humans are built with the capability to heal pain and hurt, physically and emotionally.

Well, uh, that's all I can come up with for now. Blah.
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Mar 19, 2003 10:20 pm

well, overlooking the poem right now, i think it is *very* safe to assume that it isn't gonna have some sort of hidden happy theme to it...

she lived an isolated life, and i think took her own life, in the end... she was not a happy person, and the poetry she wrote reflected that.

as for everything else... well... if i comment on it, it'll be later - i have a physics lab really soon :cry:
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Postby Rend » Thu Mar 20, 2003 12:35 am

Gigafrost wrote:Unfortunately, you have no idea when such miracles will occur...and there's probably a degree of trust you can place in someone that *will* hurt you. This means you can't really completely trust anybody.

It's nice to know that you had friends help you in your time of need...here's my question, though. Although you can depend on them to offer physical assistance in times of need, would they actually do the same thing for something emotional? What about something damaging...maybe you did something in the past they'll hold against you...or maybe they don't care that you did something...there are other ways to be hurt. Doesn't mean that it's limited to that. Even without those, the trust in friends to throw themselves in danger when one is in danger is, in itself, hurting the friends.



You can only not completely trust someone when you're paranoid that they may not be the one to trust. That's what true trust is- a blind mutual faith.

And yes, they helped me through everything. They didnt hold things against me even though I may have been wrong, and I help them out emotionally as they helped me out emotionally.
The whole example with the bees was just an example of their devotion. Everyone knew i wasn't going to die, but they sacrificed their comfort for my comfort. These were friends I could and would count on, and they never failed me once.
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Re: Moral thoughts...

Postby Nyufrost » Sun Mar 23, 2003 6:29 pm

Gigafrost wrote:the true\whole\unsensored truth hurts people and you have to dance around it. Pretty much, if you look at what it means to try and be an honest and truth-telling individual, it turns out to be a piece of crap that just hurts you and other people.

I believe honesty is one of the best qualities a person can have but there is a time for total honesty and a time for little white lies. Let's say, for example, your girlfriend wears an outfit you don't like but she thinks it's really neat and asks you what you think of it .... well, that is not the time for brutal frankness ... she doesn't need to hear that you think it makes her look fat and that you prefer thinner girls in shorter skirts and tighter sweaters. To say so would be mean and would hurt her feelings and cause an argument about why you have been looking at other girls. Instead you might say something like "it's ok but I prefer your blah-blah-blah outfit" ... so there you have glossed over the truth and spared her feelings but not lied. :)
The biggest problem is that on the internet it seems to happen alot more often...you need to explain yourself more...and when somebody's emotions are on the line this just ends up hurting you and them.

It has been my experience that *most* guys are terrible communicators in real life but that the internet sort of forces them to talk more about feelings and emotions ... two subjects they generally prefer to avoid IRL. This type of communication is really important to females --whether online or in person-- and explaining yourself frequently is a good asset because clear communication is one of the most important aspects of any relationship.

Now, here is something you might find interesting .... I know I do .... you and Terra are best friend for many years IRL yet I think I know more about his feelings/emotions than you do and more about yours than he does. That is the GOOD part of internet relationships ... I believe you get to know the inner person far better online than you do in person.

The BAD part of internet relationships is that when there *is* a misunderstanding then you don't have the benefit of being able to shake hands and make up; hug and make up or kiss and make up (depending on your relationship with the other person) and then you realize how important "touch" is. However, that can actually be a "bad" thing about in person relationships because people often fail to talk through the problem and solve it ... they simply go straight to the hugging and kissing, which is nice but basically serves to sweep the problems under the rug. And, believe me, they *will* resurface and sometimes be even worse if you don't solve them at the onset.
Whenever I've got trust in someone I find that it either doesn't matter to that person or they somehow hurt me because of it.

How do you know it doesn't matter to them? Maybe it matters far more than you realize. ;) And, it is possible you were hurt because you misunderstood something, no?
This means that there's nobody and nothing you can really trust...or rather, should trust to not hurt you.

It is true that we all get hurt, sometimes really badly, but we can't stop caring and trusting and we shouldn't just close our hearts to people because of misunderstandings or unintentional mistakes. The ones to watch out for are those who hurt you on purpose ... and, unfortunately, there are so many of them out there in both the so-called "real" world and online.
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