Balrog

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Postby Evlfrost » Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:54 pm

No the balrogs would have reported to Gothmog. Sauron was said to be the captain of angband so maybe greater minions like dragons and balrogs didnt report to him...
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Postby Rao » Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:31 pm

I am saying after the fall of Melkor. when Sauron took over as supreme dark lord. The Balrog asleep under moria was the last of its kind. All were destroyed in the battle of the Powers, except for the moria balrog. Thanks Bfrost. I have been reading Tolkiens works for 5 years.
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Postby BattleFrost » Wed Mar 05, 2003 7:33 pm

Balrogs use to rome around but a God that I can't remember the name of destroied the race and I think he missed one. I'm not sure but I will find out later.
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Mar 05, 2003 9:05 pm

well, Balrogs can't technically be destroyed - they can only be banished out of arda. and they're not really a "race", persay, either. they're of the same "race" as gandolf and melain. in fact, the only place where i can really see the rest of them dying is in the battle of powers... i mean, a lot of melkor's minions perished at that time - i just don't think it is clear on exactly which minions perished. it names a few dragons, but beyond that, i don't think it says definitivily who "died", as a result of that battle.
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Postby Rao » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:20 pm

oo sure they are a race. for example, blacks and whites are both humans, but have been called another race of people. Or Lions and housecats arent both cats. They are just different types from one race which is how i classify balrogs, and lets face it, no balrog is Gandalf. In wisdom or fighting abilities.
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Postby TerraFrost » Wed Mar 12, 2003 10:22 pm

true, true... point taken :)
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Postby BattleFrost » Tue Mar 18, 2003 7:27 pm

I wonder if Gandolf ever shows his true form?
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Postby Evlfrost » Tue Mar 18, 2003 10:27 pm

Well do Maiar even have a 'true' form?
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Postby Rao » Fri Mar 21, 2003 3:33 am

Nope, they are just spirits, sure they have a form, but not true form
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Balrog Def

Postby BattleFrost » Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:04 pm

Ok here is Balrog:
Evil beings, servants of Morgoth in the First Age. Most of them perished when the Host of Valinor overthrew Morgoth, but at least one escaped. This Balrog, referred to in the Tird Age as "the Balrog," hid at root of the mithril-vein in Khazad-dum until TA 1980, when he was accidentally released from his prison by the Dwarves. After he killed two Kings of Durin's Folk in 2 years, the Dwarves fled. About 2480 Sauron people Khazad-dum with orcs and trolls; The Balrog ruled over these by his terror. The Balrog was slain by Gandalf in TA 3019 after a ten-day battle.

Balrogs possessed great power and terror, and wielded both shadow and flame. In the 3rd Age the Balrog of Moria was second only to Sauron in evil power; his strength was almost equal to Gandolf. Balrogs were possibly lesser Valar who had joined Morgoth in his rebellion.
The Balrog of Khazad-dum was also known as Durin's Bane and the Terror

You'll find him in book 1 at 423-25, 428-30, 461; book 2 134-35; 439
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Postby Evlfrost » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:00 pm

Yeah balrogs are said to have once have been fire Maia like Aerin (the sun) but were corrupted by Melkor.
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Re: Balrog Def

Postby Tar-Herunole » Sat Jan 17, 2004 3:01 am

BattleFrost wrote:Ok here is Balrog:
Evil beings, servants of Morgoth in the First Age. Most of them perished when the Host of Valinor overthrew Morgoth, but at least one escaped. This Balrog, referred to in the Tird Age as "the Balrog," hid at root of the mithril-vein in Khazad-dum until TA 1980, when he was accidentally released from his prison by the Dwarves. After he killed two Kings of Durin's Folk in 2 years, the Dwarves fled. About 2480 Sauron people Khazad-dum with orcs and trolls; The Balrog ruled over these by his terror. The Balrog was slain by Gandalf in TA 3019 after a ten-day battle.

Balrogs possessed great power and terror, and wielded both shadow and flame. In the 3rd Age the Balrog of Moria was second only to Sauron in evil power; his strength was almost equal to Gandolf. Balrogs were possibly lesser Valar who had joined Morgoth in his rebellion.
The Balrog of Khazad-dum was also known as Durin's Bane and the Terror

You'll find him in book 1 at 423-25, 428-30, 461; book 2 134-35; 439


Ithink this is a very good description. unlesss Cristoper or TLOTR said he was the last Balrog, there is no line in the Silmarillion which says he was. THe Silmarillion says most of them were destroyed except a few who fled to the mountains and the East. i wouldn't be surprised if another one was dormant in a place near where one of the Silmarillions rest... so too deep to be found unless the dwarves found it by chance.
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Postby BattleFrost » Mon Jan 19, 2004 4:43 pm

I'm comfused about the differences in Balrog and Gandolf. Wasn't Gandolf wielder of flames? That just doesn't make sence to me.
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Postby Tar-Herunole » Tue Jan 20, 2004 12:20 am

Well, you cannot distinguish one ainur from another only by their powers. Morgoth, Sauron and Aule all were capable Smiths (No matter who was the best) but the real difference is in their objective, and the role that they play from the part they do understand from the mind of Eru. Gandalf, at the beginning the Grey, was a sort of an advisor of the Children of Iluvatar, kind of a herald, and no spirit of might, fight and destruction. The main reason why Gandalf was as well strong with Fire was because he was the Bearer of Narya, the Ring of Fire, given to him by Cirdan when he arrived in Middle Earth.
About the istari

Istari:

Gandalf refers to the 'White Council', an order of which he is a member. At other times, he mentions that he is an Istari. In all of Tolkien's popular literature, these immortal 'beings' are never explained.

However, in an essay written in 1954, Tolkien wrote:
"The first to come was one of noble mien and bearing, with raven hair, and a fair voice, and he was clad in white; great skill he had in works of hand, and he was regarded by well-nigh all, even by the [High Elves], as the head of the Order. Others there were also: two clad in sea-blue, and one in earthen brown; and last came one who seemed the least, less tall than the others, and in looks more aged, grey-haired and grey-clad, and leaning on a staff."

(Mien = air or bearing especially as expressive of attitude or personality)

The first mentioned is Saruman the White. Although never mentioned in Lord of the Rings, the two clad in sea-blue were Blue Wizards of the East, and of the South. The one in earthen brown, Radagast the Brown, features briefly in the books. And the aged wizard is Gandalf the Grey.

Istari are beings sent to Middle-Earth by the Valar (gods) to unite and counsel the Free Peoples in their struggle against Sauron. They are forbidden to dominate the people of Middle-earth or to match Sauron's power with their own. Although they appear as elderly men, they are quite vigorous and age very slowly.
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Postby Lord Reefer » Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:06 pm

Spot on. The Istari were essentially aliens (for lack of a better description) sent down to fight Surons evil. It was their entire purpose for being there. If you remember from the Hobbit Gandalf left Bilbo because he had more important things to do. He had to stop the Necromancer who was causing havoc in Mirkwood. ( The Necromancer being Sauron Before he gained any of his power back.)

After being driven from Mirkwood the Necromancer eventually goes back to Mordor and begins preparing for events in Lord of the Rings. In any case the main role of the Istari is to fight the forces of Sauron. That's why it's such a shock when Saruman turns.

As someone said, the Balrog of Morgoth is from the time of the first Dark lord of middle Earth (when Sauron was a simple apprentice). Although Sauron learns the art of ring making, and becomes almost invincible, he still may not have been in a position to 'control' the Balrog (even if he was strong enough to destroy it.) Keeping it alive would be more useful to him.
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