Balrog

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Balrog

Postby BattleFrost » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:43 pm

I read in the Two Towers that Gandalf and Balrog fell to the bottom of the mountain. It said that know one has ever been down that far in the ground. So far that there was no gravity I believe. :shock Even Sauron never been that far down. If you can imagen how deep it is :o then the weird part is the stairs. No one could walk up the stairs to the very top of the montain. On top of it, have an enemy with you. Even how old Gandalf is it would have killed him to just walk a few step. To do that and slay Balrog is like imposible to do. Why would Balrog go to the top where snow is if he is mostly fire? :pissed:
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Feb 25, 2003 9:07 am

not that i've read the two towers recently, but... i'm not sure where you get the "no gravity" part from...

i also forgot how deep it was, heh, but... since it's fresh in your memory, i guess it was pretty deep :)

also, the thing you have to realize about gandolf and the balrog is that... they aren't human. they're maiar. maiar can sorta shape shift, and do things that no mortal can do. if neither one really has any advantage, strength-wise, over the other, than the fight would no doubt manefist itself in other, more mind boggling ways...

also, by virtue of the fact that gandolf is a maiar, age really doesn't apply to him. he can look as old or as young as he wants to, heh.

as for why a balrog would go to the top, where there is snow... i really dont know. perhapes this happened as a result of the incredible battle between gandolf and the balrog. perhapes they needed more space to battle?
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Postby Evlfrost » Wed Feb 26, 2003 8:08 pm

Perhaps it was that there were other creatures down there that would interfer with their battle. "Their are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of the world"
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Postby TerraFrost » Thu Feb 27, 2003 5:18 am

actually, i think when Gandolf said that, he was refering to the Balrogs, mainly...
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Postby Evlfrost » Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:57 pm

I think he also meant things like the kraken that attacked them.
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Postby Rao » Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:20 pm

No, Gandalf forgot about the watcher of the pool. He was referring to the balrog only because he had a brief history with the dwarves of Khaza-dum and when the unleashed the balrog. In essence, Gandlaf was stronger than the balrog, all beings on Middle-earth that are of the maiar are stronger than those that are evil Maiar. For the good are blessed with the power of the Valar. Which in all case wins everytime. So since i read the Silmarillion first, it kinda gave away what happen, and like i said, i dont like the lord of the rings so it really doesnt matter to me.

The Balrog was of close relation to Gothmog, he was a captain under Gothmog. After Morgoth was defeated permenitly, he went to the mountains and went to sleep. He was then woken, by the dwarves where he reined hell on them. After Sauron occupied it. He had an unoffical ally, and damn powerful one too. The balrog ruled through fear with the orcs, so he was basciually their captain. This balrog was the last of his kind on Middle-earth and everywhere for that matter.
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Postby TerraFrost » Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:06 pm

wow... where did you find all that out!? from what i've read, the balrog of moria may or may not have been the only surviving one, and... i don't recall anything being mentioned of him from the first age...
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Postby Rao » Fri Feb 28, 2003 4:15 am

My brain Terra, all in the brain. Think of it this way, with the whole world against you, wouldnt you call on the most powerful beings on earth to your side. I would, and being the Servant Melkor, all balrogs would've come. Logic, is all you neede for that one, and i got the info about the balrog a while ago, i cant remember where. I will look for you.
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Postby TerraFrost » Fri Feb 28, 2003 5:02 am

hehe - i want a brain, too! :)

anyways, i'm not saying you're wrong... i was just hoping that perhapes you knew of some secret tolkien trove that had more info, and that what you gave was only a brief summary of some of the stuff in this treasure trove of tolkien info :)
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Postby Rao » Sat Mar 01, 2003 7:52 pm

Complete Gudie to Middle earth will give you most of what I said about the balrog. Also find the book, the lays of Beleriand.
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Postby TerraFrost » Sat Mar 01, 2003 10:26 pm

well.. i have both of those, and don't recall anything being mentioned in either of those about the balrog of moria being the last balrog in existence... nor does it say he isn't, but anyways...

i also don't recall either book mentioning the history of the balrog of moria in the first age... when you say he was a close relation to Gothmog... do you mean that he was a close relation to Gothmog, by virtue of being a balrog (as was Gothmog), or that his rank as a captain made him closer to Gothmog than other balrogs?

last... if Sauron did know about the Balrog of moria... why would sauron keep his most powerful ally burried under stone? why not *use* him, when Sauron needed him?

now granted, the complete guide doesn't cover the unfinished tales published by christopher tolkien, and as i'm more familiar with the complete guide's account of balrogs than i am with the lays of beleriand (seeing as how the complete guide is pretty much an encyclopedec reference), i guess this must all be in the lays of beleraind... could you perhapes tell me which section it's in?
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Postby Rao » Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:10 pm

The Balrog didnt know about Sauron, nor did it really care that he existed, i am trying to figure out which part, i read about the balrog a long time ago, going 6 months now. So I will find it, and i remember him mentioning that it was from the first age, and look at it from a logical perspective. The Balrogs didnt come from the ground, they came from over the great sea with Melkor and Melkor used balrogs, Sauron didnt.
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Postby BattleFrost » Sun Mar 02, 2003 6:17 pm

I did know that balrog of moria was the last of his kind. I found this out by a old old book that my Aunt gave me. :) It has all the names of the characters, places, and what book and page to find it. It tells more of the story of each character. But I didn't read Gandolf yet so that might be why I didn't understand. :lol I'm impressed on how much you know Rao Frostblade. 8)
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Postby Evlfrost » Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:00 pm

What is the name of that book? I however did not know that he was the last balrog. Why would the balrog not care that Sauron existed? Wasnt Sauron Melkor's second?
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Postby TerraFrost » Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:21 pm

yeah... Sauron was, for all essential purposes, Melkor's second... however, i think the Balrogs reported to Melkor, just as Sauron reported to Melkor... so i think to the Balrogs, Sauron would just be another... minion of Melkor? i dunno... Rao? :)
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