Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, uruk-hais

One ring to rule them all, one ring to find them. One forum to bring it all and in the darkness bind them.

Moderators: Rao, Tar-Herunole

Goblins, Orcs, Hobgoblins, uruk-hais

Postby Tar-Herunole » Thu Jan 15, 2004 12:15 pm

Does anybody know exactly what the goblins are? Is it a synonim for orc? Were the Uruk-hai a improvement of Orc coming of men and orc or of goblin and Orc... What is a hobgoblin (I think I did not read this in Tolkien, but just in case someone can help)
User avatar
Tar-Herunole
Elite Guard
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:01 am

Postby TerraFrost » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:25 pm

i think tolkien actually mentions hobgoblins in the hobbit. anyways, i think goblins are supposed to be orcs, and hobgoblins, uruk-hai. of course, the hobbit also mentions giants, and other things we never see again, such as beorn, etc. giants, near as i can tell, are supposed to be ents, but i'm not sure what beorn is, heh. he's supposed to be a human, but he seems no more human than gandolf or tom bombadil, who are only human in the sense that they look it.
TerraFrost
Legendary Guard
 
Posts: 12357
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:37 am

Postby nemele » Thu Jan 15, 2004 5:37 pm

Yeah, that definitely confuses me...I thought the Uruk-hai were a cross between goblins and Orcs...? What's the difference between a goblin and an Orc?
Queen of the PointyShiney
"I've been called many things in my life, but never a vicious, cold-blooded piece of toast."-Cassie's "Draco Sinister"
"I'll see that 'blimey' and raise you a 'f*ing hell.'"-Lori's "HWaTF"
User avatar
nemele
Castle Guard
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:41 pm
Location: Just to the left of you...yes, right there.

Postby Tar-Herunole » Thu Jan 15, 2004 7:18 pm

nemele wrote:Yeah, that definitely confuses me...I thought the Uruk-hai were a cross between goblins and Orcs...? What's the difference between a goblin and an Orc?


Although I think Terrafrost is right, the same question Queen Nemele rises mad me confused...???

About Hobbit and Beornides, I think both are descents of men, for Iluvatar had only two kindred, and granted to Aule a third, the Dwarves. All the rest are descendants from those (orcs, gollum), Ainur (Maia, Valar..), or creatures of varda (Ents, Trolls...)
High King of the Noldor in Middle-Earth
Honorary Knight of the Pointy Shiney
"... All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die"
User avatar
Tar-Herunole
Elite Guard
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:01 am

Postby TerraFrost » Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:33 pm

those sound like good delinations to me. so what is the fate of creatures of varda? as i recall, dwarves sorta return to the earth, or something. do creatures of varda do the same thing?
TerraFrost
Legendary Guard
 
Posts: 12357
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2002 6:37 am

Postby Tar-Herunole » Fri Jan 16, 2004 6:02 pm

I think that the creatures of Yavanna (sorry not Varda) do go back to Yavanna. However I have a doubt about the Dwarves, because at least they believed themselves to have a different destiny after Death, maybe also in the gardens of Mandos. The Silmarillion says that the Elves believed they went back to the Earth, but the Dwarves believed Aule set apart some Halls in Mandos, and that's where they dwell until the end of times, where they will help Aule the creator to remake the world following the uinitial design of Eru.
High King of the Noldor in Middle-Earth
Honorary Knight of the Pointy Shiney
"... All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die"
User avatar
Tar-Herunole
Elite Guard
 
Posts: 1471
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2004 1:01 am

Postby nemele » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:53 pm

Maybe we should hold a seance and ask Tolkien himself. Otherwise I think we'll all just be frustrated until the end of eternity.
Queen of the PointyShiney
"I've been called many things in my life, but never a vicious, cold-blooded piece of toast."-Cassie's "Draco Sinister"
"I'll see that 'blimey' and raise you a 'f*ing hell.'"-Lori's "HWaTF"
User avatar
nemele
Castle Guard
 
Posts: 806
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2003 6:41 pm
Location: Just to the left of you...yes, right there.

Postby Evlfrost » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:59 pm

Yeah it is a common belife amoung the drawves that Aule takes them to the halls of mandos. While they arnt true immortals, they do live longer than humans. They dont have the gift of men so I guess thats why the Valar suffered Gimli to go to Aman with Legolas.
Evljsh: You're young and thus illegal!
xXOkashiiSuruXx: -falls over-

Image
User avatar
Evlfrost
Frost Druid
Frost Druid
 
Posts: 6692
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 2:41 pm
Location: Suburbia


Return to The Tolkien League

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

cron