random idea

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random idea

Postby TerraFrost » Sun Mar 30, 2003 7:25 am

the tolkien encyclopedia reference sites we have given links to just aren't very informative... so... i think we should write our own! we could expand on the topics they talk about, or whatever :)

one of the things that we could do, that he current published tolkien guides do is quote the book. we could model the sections in it after the now defunt B5 encyclopedia - Encyclopedia Xenobiologica.

here's an old sorta archive of that site..

http://web.archive.org/web/199812020022 ... p.com/VEX/

it has sections for sentient races, non-sentient creatures, galatic organizations, technology, locations, and profiles (of people).

for sentient races, it has a few catagories that it elaborates on:

physiology, history, government, homeworld, colonies, and technology.

for non-sentient creatures, it elaborates on these catagories:

habitat, econiche (predatory omnivore, etc), and intelligence (associate thought, etc)

for galatic organizations, the catagories varry... it almost always has history, but for some, it talks about the uniforms, and training, to education, p-scale, or whatever.

same thing for most of the others... for places, places it gives are like... earth, and then the main topics are the main cities....

but anyways, i think the correspondance is kinda obvious... replace sentient races with children of eru, perhapes, or children of middle earth, or something, and then have sections for history, physiology, psychology, or whatever...

we could then add pictures - artist representations, and... yup! :)
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Postby Rao » Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:26 pm

I think this a wonderful idea, but with work i am afraid I am of little help. I will help when i can, but not as much anymore :(
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Postby OmegaFrost » Sun Mar 30, 2003 10:33 pm

I will gladly help as mucgh as Ic an but that probbly wont turn out to be too much unless I use my dads book on middle earth.
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Postby TerraFrost » Sun Mar 30, 2003 11:07 pm

well.. we can probably just shorten it to minions of melkor, for now, since that's probably what most people would look at anyways (or atleast that's my guess, hehe)
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Postby Evlfrost » Mon Mar 31, 2003 3:14 pm

Hmm....I suppose I could help out when I have time...
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Apr 01, 2003 1:06 am

one of the things which the above encyclopedia did, that i think contributed to its success, was that it made up names for alien races that, in the series, were unnamed.

i mean, for a book, nameless enemies might be a good thing, but they sure aren't for an encyclopedia...

so what would ya'll think of making up names?

for example... iirc, the assult on gondolin involved some sort of metalic worm-like creature, in the depths of which were orcs.

now... before anyone gets upset about my suggesting we take some poetic liscense...

iron crown enterprises did it. they named every one of the nazgul:

http://www.oakheart.com/data/cardlist.html#METW

in contrast, only two nazgul are ever named by tolkien himself (khamul, in unfinished tales, and the witchking of angmar, in, well... LotR, heh)

also, decipher, in their card game, gives names to the nazgul. in fact... they give different names, and ignore the name of khamul, altogether:

http://www.decipher.com/lordoftherings/ ... index.html

(look at #229 and beyond)

so, anyways... they did it, it served them well, and... i think it's something we should consider, too :)

although if we did this, it would be a good idea to have a little disclaimer at the bottom pointing this out. the encyclopedia i linked to above has, itself, such a disclaimer, that is sorta mentioned HERE.
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Postby TerraFrost » Tue Apr 01, 2003 8:31 am

here are some of the unnamed creatures of morgoth:

Code: Select all
Then on a time
Melko assembled all his most cunning smiths and sorcerers, and of
iron and flame they wrought a host of monsters such as have only
at that time been seen and shall not again be till the Great End.
Some were all of iron so cunningly linked that they might flow like
slow rivers of metal or coil themselves around and above all
obstacles before them, and these were filled in their innermost
depths with the grimmest of the Orcs with scimitars and spears;
others of bronze and copper were given hearts and spirits of
blazing fire, and they blasted all that stood before them with the
terror of their snorting or trampled whatso escaped the ardour of
their breath; yet others were creatures of pure flame that writhed
like ropes of molten metal, and they brought to ruin whatever
fabric they came nigh, and iron and stone melted before them and
became as water, and upon them rode the Balrogs in hundreds;
and these were the most dire of all those monsters which Melko
devised against Gondolin.


that's from the book of lost tales, part i. now, of course, there are only supposed to be seven balrogs, at most, in later stories, but ah well... so one part of it is wrong.

Code: Select all
And now came the Monsters across the valley and the white
towers of Gondolin reddened before them; but the stoutest were
in dread seeing those dragons of fire and those serpents of bronze
and iron that fare already about the hill of the city; and they shot
unavailing arrows at them. Then is there a cry of hope, for behold,
the snakes of fire may not climb the hill for its steepness and for its
glassiness, and by reason of the quenching waters that fall upon its
sides; yet they lie about its feet and a vast steam arises where the
streams of Amon Gwareth and the flames of the serpents drive
together. Then grew there such a heat that women became faint
and men sweated to weariness beneath their mail, and all the
springs of the city, save only the fountain of the king, grew hot and
smoked.
But now Gothmog lord of Balrogs, captain of the hosts of
Melko, took counsel and gathered all his things of iron that could
coil themselves around and above all obstacles before them. These
he bade pile themselves before the northern gate; and behold,
their great spires reached even to its threshold and thrust at the
towers and bastions about it, and by reason of the exceeding
heaviness of their bodies those gates fell, and great was the noise
thereof: yet the most of the walls around them still stood firm.
Then the engines and the catapults of the king poured darts and
boulders and molten metals on those ruthless beasts, and their
hollow bellies clanged beneath the buffeting, yet it availed not for
they might not be broken, and the fires rolled off them. Then were
the topmost opened about their middles, and an innumerable host
of the Orcs, the goblins of hatred, poured therefrom into the
breach; and who shall tell of the gleam of their scimitars or the
flash of the broad-bladed spears with which they stabbed?
Then did Rog shout in a mighty voice, and all the people of the,
Hammer of Wrath and the kindred of the Tree with Galdor the
valiant leapt at the foe. There the blows of their great hammers
and the dint of their clubs rang to the Encircling Mountains and
the Orcs fell like leaves; and those of the Swallow and the Arch
poured arrows like the dark rains of autumn upon them, and both
Orcs and Gondothlim fell thereunder for the smoke and the
confusion. Great was that battle, yet for all their valour the
Gondothlim by reason of the might of ever increasing numbers
were borne slowly backwards till the goblins held part of the
northernmost city.


Code: Select all
Now was the battle at that gate very evil indeed, and Duilin of
the Swallow as he shot from the walls was smitten by a fiery bolt
of the Balrogs who leapt about the base of Amon Gwareth; and he
fell from the battlements and perished. Then the Balrogs con-
tinued to shoot darts of fire and flaming arrows like small snakes
into the sky, and these fell upon the roofs and gardens of Gondolin
till all the trees were scorched, and the flowers and grass burned
up, and the whiteness of those walls and colonnades was blackened
and seared: yet a worse matter was it that a company of those
demons climbed upon the coils of the serpents of iron and thence
loosed unceasingly from their bows and slings till a fire began to
burn in the city to the back of the main army of the defenders.
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Postby Evlfrost » Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:46 pm

Well if we are going to create our own encyclopedia, we would need a team leader, to break up the work, etc. Anyway its just an idea.
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Postby TerraFrost » Thu Apr 03, 2003 11:41 pm

actually, i was kinda imagining that people would contribute to whatever part they could, heh.
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Postby Tar-Herunole » Thu Jan 15, 2004 11:08 pm

Invent names?! Let's burn TerraFrost in the pyre!!!
Just kidding, if a disclaimer is added, I think there is no much problem, although I would rather leave them unknowned or say something like "which name could have been" than straightaway inventing it and later add the disclaimer...

Anyway to make it a collective task we definitely need a work method, and possibly a Project leader.. I would love to contribute, but cannot be the leader as I am pretty busy with work
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Postby TerraFrost » Fri Jan 16, 2004 5:32 pm

yeah... i've been pretty busy with work / school, myself, too :(

i guess for now, we could all just sorta volunteer to take on a few catagories, or something. also, i think it might be neat to, instead of sorta paraphrase descriptions, to just use tolkien's descriptions. if he had multiple descriptions, he could sorta include 'em all, or something. after i've finished with the few php scripts i have left to work on, i could sorta come up with a homepage showcasing what i mean :)
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Postby Tar-Herunole » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:31 pm

Sounds great! Hourray Hourray! ^_^
I could do cities of Aman to start with
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Postby TerraFrost » Fri Jan 16, 2004 11:54 pm

that'd be neat! i'm thinking what interests me the most are the sorta evil creatures of middle earth, hehe :), and the items of middle earth / arda :)
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Postby Tar-Herunole » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:40 am

In that case maybe I could write about traitors such as Nim or Maeglin
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Postby Evlfrost » Sat Jan 17, 2004 4:39 am

I dunno what I would write about, so many choices. But I dont think I could start anytime soon. The beginning of the school year is not a good time to try to get me to do anything heh. Just have too much on my hands right now.
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